Can This Casual Relationship Ever Become Serious?

Estimated reading time: 14 minutes

Dear Dr. NerdLove,

I met this guy on Bumble, and I am attracted to him (maybe not at first). On our first date, he expressed, “I am not ready to jump into a relationship yet. Let’s do things casually first and see”; whereas I said, “I don’t want to do casual because I tried in the past and I can’t be casual”. To be clear, CASUAL to us here means that we just have fun with each other while still being free to see someone else (his definition, I went along). In the end, I compromised that we would keep things casual in order to get to know each other better before we move on to a committed relationship (because this is what I want). He agreed. He and I are both 26. Needless to say, that was a recipe for failure.

After 3 weeks of hanging out (in his apartment, watching tv, eating dinner and having sex), I was feeling lonely when this guy I’ve been sleeping with still felt so estranged. [Of note, we met on the 1st week of October, on the 2nd week he was on a business trip until Sunday, and on the 3rd and 4th visits he had to prepare for a 1-month trip home to India, all of which was why I was ok to hangout late at night in his apartment and why I was lonely] I lightly expressed my confusion by jokingly said, “Why made me like you in the first place if you’re just going to leave me alone on Halloween and then off to India for 1 month lol”. I thought he would reply with some joke expressing his affection towards me, but to my surprise, he said “You don’t have to wait for me. I told you I’m going to be busy”. I thought he liked me (at some amount at least), but that sentence told me that he didn’t care if I stayed or not. That’s when I decided to end things (before I liked him more) but before I got to say anything, he texted me a few days later asking about my day, giving attention, like nothing major happened between us. I had a define-the-relationship conversation again; he told me not to wait until he was in India. Thus, I asked him if a casual relationship was all that he ever wanted with me. To which he answered, “The casual thing is just a period, not the whole thing. He wants to see where things go with me”. So I told him to text me if he’s still interested in dating me, and because I am not able to be attracted to 2 people at the same time, I don’t think I will change my mind after he’s gone. He smiled and said, “I will text you”.

During the first 2 weeks in India, we chatted and did some sexting, until problems arose again. He bragged to me that he got hit up by girls (who he admitted were pretty) in a club, which is something that never happened to him before. When I asked if he intended to hang out with them again, he replied, “not sure. I’m spending the weekend with my parents”. This is where I blew up. I was mad and had a hard time understanding my emotions. We are casual so I have no right to be mad that he may decide to hang out with those girls again. But we’re seeing each other with the intention to have something real later, is it ok for him or me to think about seeing someone else in the meantime under the name of being casual to each other? I brought my confusion to him again in the hope of finding some clarity or boundaries, with him saying that “we don’t owe anything to each other”, “I made assumptions and overthink”, “don’t wait for him”, “we should not talk while I’m traveling and wait until I come back”. So I agreed to stop talking to him until he came back to the US. If we are still both interested, we can reach out then… I still like him, but I am seriously thinking about ending it all when it causes so much heartache and confusion.

My questions are: Was I the overthinking one, who wrecked a good thing, by trying to define things too soon? Or was he the one who misled me (maybe without his knowing)? I KNOW I’M ASKING HIM SOMETHING HE DOESN’T HAVE. If that’s so, should I try a bit more, or end things now cause this is going nowhere? There’s a high chance that he will contact me when he gets back because he’s always said that every time we mentioned India.

Two Track Relationship

OK, TTR, I’m going to be blunt here. You didn’t wreck a good thing by trying to define things too soon… because this wasn’t a good thing. It wasn’t from the jump and it won’t be, no matter how much work you try to put into it.  

I want to point out precisely where things went wrong with this relationship: right when you said you “compromised” on what this relationship could be. What you agreed to wasn’t a compromise. What you agreed to was exactly what he said he wanted – to be casual and see what happened. The only difference is that you got the impression that this was definitely going to lead to commitment and he was still very much on the “we will see” part – and it seems that you agreed to this in a way that means that he could just continue to kick the metaphorical can down the road for eternity.

Honestly, if you know that what you want is a committed, monogamous relationship, you need to date people who are also looking for committed, monogamous relationships. The fact that he wasn’t looking for that and said so up front should have been your sign to say “ok, we’re looking for different things, best of luck in your search” and moved on to someone else.

But you didn’t and now here we are.

Now I want to be clear that I’m not giving this dude a free pass. For one thing, I feel the same way about what he did “compromising” with you as I do for folks who promise to “consider” something their partner asked for with no intention of ever actually doing it – it’s a shitty thing to do and it’s fundamentally dishonest, regardless of how “technically” true it may be.

But what I have a bigger issue with is the way he’s behaving. He’s doing something a lot of guys in casual relationships do: he’s treating you casually. You two weren’t really dating so much as he had convenient sex on tap. Small wonder that you felt lonely even while you were with him.  

But I’d also note that his treating you casually includes his rather dismissive and frankly cold behavior. This is something guys in casual or FWB relationships often do in part because they got it in their heads that if they act even vaguely nice to their FWB that she’s going to catch feelings. He’s driving home, over and over again, that this is “CASUAL” and so you shouldn’t expect much from him. The “I told you what this was, you don’t have to wait for me” is basically a fig leaf to cover his ass – a way of pretending that what he’s acting isn’t cold and dismissive. He’s justifying it with “I told her what this was, even though I know that’s not what she wants nor what she really agreed to” to himself and to others.

And yet somehow it still hurts when he does it. Go figure.

He gave you just enough attention to keep you from dumping him entirely (because he wants to fuck), but no actual promises or indications of genuine intent… until, at least, he was overseas and fucking other people. He doesn’t want you bugging him while he’s gone because he doesn’t want the buzzkill, but he wants to keep you on the hook for when he gets back.

Look, TTR, you never should’ve dated this guy in the first place. You wanted different things and trying to force this was a mistake on your part when it should have been obvious from the jump that it wasn’t going to work. But he’s also being a profound dick to you, clearly has no intention of ever actually committing to a monogamous relationship and apparently doesn’t give a six-legged rat’s ass about the fact that his behavior’s hurting you while trying to get what he wants out of this arrangement. 

This relationship is a dead plant. It’ s never going to grow, so stop watering it. Dump his ass now. You don’t need to wait for him to come home first and honestly, I don’t really see any need to respond to his disrespect by waiting or hashing things out. There’s nothing to say here besides “it’s over, forget my number”.

And then next time, when someone tells you that they want something that’s diametrically opposed to what you are looking for, believe them instead of thinking that this is something you can negotiate.

Good luck.

Hey Doc!  I wanted to ask why a lot of dating advice people will often tell guys who are stuck in life to “join a gym,” and “lose weight,” yet when women ask for advice about being stuck (and mentioning their weight), they aren’t suggested to do the same.

About me before I proceed: I am a guy in my thirties becoming self-conscious about the fact that my metabolism isn’t what it used to be, mostly because I just don’t exercise like I used to. I don’t subscribe to the idea that “once you’re in your thirties, it’s all downhill,” because I know people of all ages in great shape. But I really don’t like exercising because of significant sensory processing issues; being on the autism spectrum so gyms are places that feel like an anxiety war zone to me (to the point of nausea and depressive spirals afterwards).

It’s odd because in my twenties, I used to be into martial arts and intense training, like 3-4 times a week for many years and was very fit, and didn’t struggle with sensory overload while training. But now it seems like anything slightly noisy (especially most gyms or studios now that blast music that people keep turning up even after I ask the staff to turn it down) triggers constant anxiety and prevents me from being able to relax and concentrate on what I’m doing, and I also get tinnitus spikes from it all (I take great care of my hearing and wear earplugs, but being on the spectrum, everything is constantly dialed up so tinnitus is a side effect of that). For that reason, I actually found minor amounts of alcohol before previous training sessions more effective at treating anxiety in the short term than any medication I tried, but that’s a slippery slope.

So anyhoo, here I am, starting to gain significant weight in places that I don’t like the looks of, and I don’t like exercising. I eat healthy as I can (homecooked everything, no sugary drinks or junk food), but my body just does what it does. I am grateful I learned how to dress stylishly to work with what I have with complimenting colors and etc, but it’s kind of a game of cat and mouse to get more clothes every year to compensate my expanding body. I feel torn between two ideas that in order to like myself I need to just “accept what I look like” which I can definitely do to some degree, versus needing to exercise and do the thing people recommend because it’s supposed to make me “more attractive,” but the same isn’t the case for women in my position who are told to “just love themselves.” I myself am attracted to plus sized women so exercise would not be the first thing on my mind if a woman asked me for advice themselves.

So is it true that on average bigger women are more attractive to men, whereas bigger men are less attractive to women? I don’t want to think in black and white, but it seems like everyone dispenses advice that resembles this.

So my “solution” for exercise that’s tolerable to me in the meantime has been walking and moving around in ways that I can, but it’s just enough and I really wish there were more gyms that emphasized sensory friendly environments (without being lame like Planet Fitness) so I can make another attempt at this.

Aside from that, could you help give me some words of wisdom that might help with my cognitive dissonance? Thank you for reading!

-Stuck In The Middle Of Me

My dear brother in Christ, I would like to introduce you to every woman’s magazine ever for the last hundred years. Also 80% of advertising for women up to and including alcohol,  and a solid half of the “Women’s Health” section at GNC. 

This is a case of “just because you’re not seeing it doesn’t mean it’s not happening”, SITMM. The whole “women aren’t asked to do this” is rather demonstrably not true – you’re not seeing it because you’re not spending a lot of time reading advice given to women nor are you experiencing the barrage of various comments that fat women get about their weight. What you’re getting are other people interpreting a very small slice of online discourse around body positivity and assuming that it’s universal and not playing telephone with a niche community rather than people’s lived experiences.

It’s also rather notably not confined to dating; fat people in general and women in particular – because misogyny stacks, rather than substitutes – get constantly told to lose weight in subtle and incredibly overt ways. I’d recommend that you listen to the podcast Maintenance Phase; Aubrey Gordon and Michael Hobbes talk extensively about all the ways that fat people and fat women in particular are condescended to and generally told they shouldn’t exist. The two recent episodes about Ozempic and Wegovy are an excellent example; besides talking about the drug itself, Hobbes and Gordon talk about the discourse around the drug and fatness. Aubrey Gordon also has an excellent documentary called “Your Fat Friend”, which will really drive home all the ways that women are not, in fact, given a free pass.

Trust me: as soon as you start having even the seemingly “helpful” comments pointed out to you, it becomes next to impossible to not see it.

Part of why it’s very much a thing in dating advice for men is because it’s part and parcel of  – say it with me now – the toxic masculinity package. It’s restrictive and toxic ideas about “how to be a man” paired with fatphobia’s “being overweight is a moral and spiritual failing”. It also makes for great marketing; play to people’s existing belief that being overweight is a moral failing that also proves you’re too “soft” to be a real man, neg them for being fatty fatfats and then offer to “tough love” them into being RIPPED HE-MEN WHO GET ALL THE SEX. For folks who internalize a lot of shame or anxiety over their bodies, feel lost and isolated and awkward with women, it sounds perfect precisely because it preys on those worries. Confirm someone’s worst fears, then sell them the “cure” is a time-honored tradition of capitalism.

Now, when it comes to squaring the circle between loving yourself, being attractive and getting fit… fitness comes in a lot of sizes and shapes and weights. Power lifters don’t exactly look like Men’s Health cover models; they look like very large beer kegs with limbs. Same with sumotori – their physiques are deceptive. They have a lot of body fat but are incredibly strong and unbelievably fast, capable of astounding bursts of speed. I’m very much in favor of working out and getting fit, but it’s important to recognize that fitness isn’t necessarily aesthetic.

Now, I agree with you: the best exercise and fitness plan is the one that you can stick to, so if going to the gym doesn’t work for you, finding something that does is great. Going for walks, playing team sports, kayaking or swimming or any other physical activity you enjoy is a great option. Or you may try looking to other forms of exercise like Pilates or home fitness programs via Apple Fitness or Peloton or others.

You might also find earplugs specifically designed for folks with sensory issues to be helpful; I know a lot of people who swear by Loop or similar brands. Cutting down the noise without blocking out entirely may help avoid sensory overload when all you want is to do your workout and go home.

But working out and “loving yourself for who you are” aren’t mutually exclusive when it comes to attraction, either. Attractiveness is as much about social skills and presentation as it is about body fat percentage, muscle mass or your cheekbones. Treating yourself well, dressing in a way that makes you feel like a sexy badass and working on how to make other people feel good go a long, long way towards making you attractive. There’re reasons why women have very sweaty feelings about Letterkenny’s K. Trevor Wilson or why they preferred Andy Dwyer over Star Lord.

So, while fitness is great – including fitt’n this burrito in my mouf – how you feel about yourself and how you make others feel is going to be more important overall. You can work out, still be large and still love yourself and still be loved by others. That ultimately comes from within.

Put your focus there. And stop listening to people who tell you that women aren’t expected to lose weight in order to be attractive; they’re either mistaken or outright lying to you.

Good luck.