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Hey Doc,
I’m a 31-year-old straight man who’s been dating a 38-year-old bi woman for about 5 months. Despite our age difference we feel like we are on exactly the same level. We’re both weird, awkward turbonerds with a ton of obscure interests in common, we both struggle with mental illness and got a late start in adulting, we’re both virgins who, despite not being traditionally religious, only ever want to be with one person and make sure they’re the one before getting physically intimate, and overall we just seem almost uncannily perfect for each other, except for one thing I’m starting to think might be a red flag.
My girlfriend, whom I’ll call Peach, has a friend I’ll call Durian, whom she met online when they were about 14-15. Durian is mentally ill on a whole other level – she’s on disability, has never worked, has no real-life friends besides Peach, and rarely leaves her home. Durian lives in the same city as us, which was part of the reason Peach moved here last year after her mom’s death, but their relationship is still primarily online. For 20-plus years Peach and Durian have constantly collaborated on stories they refer to as RPGs because they write back and forth from the POV of different characters. This writing takes up a large portion of Peach’s free time, which is not the problem – I have my own solitary hobbies I could do while she does that.
But I’d already begun to suspect this wasn’t a totally healthy thing for Peach. She is frequently in a bad mood because Durian isn’t writing something the way she wants, or doesn’t want to write when she’s dying to, or is pestering her to write when she doesn’t feel like it. She told me she used to dream of being a writer, and judging by her conversation has a real gift for words, but has only written RPGs with Durian for so long that she’s lost her ability to create and write stories independently, which she admits depresses her.
Peach was also very secretive about these RPGs, which are not publicly posted anywhere and are only accessible to her and Durian. She said they were just silly fanfic type stuff and didn’t want to share any details. I respected this, but one day when I came over to pick Peach up and she was still getting ready, I sat down in her computer chair because her bed was covered with stuff, and I saw she had left her email up onscreen with the first lines of every email she recently exchanged with Durian visible. This was an extended sex scene in their current RPG, and trust me when I say while I may be a virgin, I’m not a pure or easily shocked innocent, and this was hardcore by anyone’s standards. I’m talking hyper-vivid descriptions of some guy’s huge veiny cock, his incredible cunnilingus skills, the woman’s multiple screaming orgasms, and so on.
When Peach came out of the bathroom and saw that she’d left her email up and I’d seen it, she acted embarrassed and upset, but quickly realized it was her mistake and I had not deliberately snooped. I calmly asked about what I’d seen, and she admitted the RPGs she writes with Durian are romances which contain a lot of sex. How it goes is, Peach gets a crush on a male canon character, she makes up the perfect original girl for him and writes as the girl, and Durian writes as the guy for her; then when Durian likes a guy, it’s vice versa. I asked if they get turned on or masturbate during this process, and Peach said yes of course, but very defensively added – so much so I have to wonder if it’s 100% true – that they’re thinking of the story and characters, not each other. I asked if they wrote lesbian couples as well, and Peach said no, they only write straight couples. I asked if Durian was bi/lesbian or straight, and Peach said she identifies as bi, but as far as Peach knows has never actually shown any interest in women.
I asked what Durian thought about her relationship with me, and she said Durian seemed kind of jealous, but it’s not clear if this is because she wants Peach to herself, or because Peach finally has a flesh and blood guy and she doesn’t, or a bit of both. She did say Durian doesn’t like to talk about me, but this fits with Durian generally not wanting to talk about anything in real life. Which has been another source of friction between them, because whenever Peach has a problem or is depressed about something and needs to talk, Durian brushes her off and just wants to talk about movies and stories.
I finally took the plunge and asked if she had any sexual or romantic feelings for Durian. At first Peach said no, but then admitted that she used to, that for years she assumed they would move in together after their parents died, and she would have been happy with that even if Durian never wanted to do anything physical. But after she moved here she came to realize that was never going to happen, which was why she finally began looking for a real relationship. She says she wants to be with me but can’t imagine giving up something that has been such a huge part of her life for so long, and even if she did she feels like that would be unfair to Durian, who has basically nothing else in her life.
We went out and had a good time, but I still didn’t know how to feel. I had a talk with my married female friend and coworker Jane, who introduced me to Peach. Jane grew up with Peach in the same small town, then coincidentally moved to the same city as Durian for college and settled here, although she only knows Durian through Peach. As soon as the subject of Durian came up, Jane – who is normally very calm and diplomatic – absolutely went off on how Durian is a hot mess, a waste of atoms, and an emotional vampire who has sucked the talent, energy, love and life out of Peach for years. Even though Peach never admitted it to her, Jane also suspected that Peach was in love with Durian – but Durian has zero interest in an actual relationship with anyone, of any gender, she just wants to monopolize Peach’s time and devotion without offering anything in return. Jane said she was rooting for me to be the one who breaks Peach away from Durian and gives her the real-life love and support and partnership she deserves.
But – I just don’t know. I don’t think I can “save” Peach from Durian if Peach doesn’t want to be saved. And I honestly don’t know if I can deal with her writing relationship while having a romantic relationship with her, either. It wouldn’t bother me a bit if she wrote secret sexy stories on her own – I would see that as equivalent to masturbation. Even if she was writing with another person, if they were publishing and selling erotica on Amazon, I could see it as just work – even if they were just posting it as fanfic for other fans to read, I could see it as normal fandom activity. But the private nature of these RPGs, plus their highly sexual nature, plus the involvement of another person all seem to add up to a likelihood that I would feel Peach wasn’t being as faithful to me as I would be to her. Maybe if I was a more secure and confident person, but in that case I’d be a different person, and probably not compatible with Peach in the first place.
But I really don’t want to just let her go over this, because I might be 60 before I find someone else as perfect for me as she is. So please tell me – do you think Peach and Durian’s relationship sounds normal or healthy? Is it weird for someone to have a private, erotic writing relationship with one person while in a supposedly monogamous relationship with another? Is it weird that I feel weird about it? Does it seem likely that Peach would cheat on me with and/or leave me for Durian, or that Durian would get in the way if we were to become more serious? Conversely, how likely is it that once we begin a physical, sexual relationship the stories will naturally pale in comparison and Peach will drift away from Durian of her own accord? Would it help if I offered to write sexy stories with her instead, even roleplaying as whatever guy she has a crush on? (Since I have zero jealousy of fictional characters or even actors, only real people my significant other actually knows.) How should I talk to Peach about all this, what is fair and not fair for me to ask of her, and is there any possible future for us?
Pen Is Envied
Are you sure you all are in your 30s? PIE? Because this sounds a lot like teen and twenty-something drama.
In fact, before I get to your question, PIE, I’m going to go off on a bit of a tangent; give me a second, because I promise you’ll understand why I’m going a bit inside baseball by the time it’s done.
I’ve been writing this column for more than ten years now, and the old saw that there’s nothing new under the sun is an accurate one. A lot of times, what seems to be oddly complex and convoluted is actually a lot simpler than you’d expect at first blush. This isn’t exactly surprising; relationships have a lot of moving parts, feelings can be complicated and humans on the whole are almost defined by our ability to overthink everything.
This is how we often get to the point of “the problem you think you have isn’t the problem you actually have.” It’s very easy for us to get lost in the weeds about all the fiddly details that live rent-free in our heads because hey, most of us never got the pages from the manual that taught us how to turn the volume down on our thoughts. So it’s absolutely natural to think that things are far, far more complex than they actually are; we keep coming up with new “what-if’s” and variants that seem logical to us precisely because we can trace the steps that got us there.
The problem is… most of the time, those steps only make sense to us because they’re premised on a whole lotta facts not actually in evidence. We’re reacting to the things we think because we decided that this must be true. And as a result, we’re ultimately hurting our own feelings. especially if we just don’t have much experience to refer back to.
All of which is a long-winded way of saying: this is a lot simpler than you think, PIE. The issue you have is pretty cut and dry: Peach’s friendship with Durian is hitting your insecurities. She has a close relationship with someone else and that relationship has a sexual element to it – if you squint – and you worry that this means there’s not really any room for you. The rest of it? It’s just details.
Is their erotic fanfic back and forth a bit odd? Enh, if you’re over a certain age, sure I can see that. It certainly is the sort of thing I’d probably find strange in someone my age, but only because of the format. If we were talking about, say, characters having a relationship in a D&D campaign – either between PCs or between Peach’s character and an NPC controlled by Durian as the DM – then it wouldn’t be that weird. Certainly not for folks who’re really into roleplaying games and creating stories for their characters.
What they’re doing doesn’t strike me as being all that different from a couple of people doing Superwholock roleplay on Tumblr or collaborative fanfic on AO3; I’ve certainly seen far weirder on LiveJournal (msscribe, anyone? Anyone? God I’m old.)
Now without having actual samples of the writing (and no, please don’t share any; if Peach didn’t give you permission, then that’s pretty shitty) but honestly, what you describe doesn’t sound terribly off from a lot of romance novels or smutty fanfics. Now seeing as both of the writers are presumably virgins, I’m going to raise an eyebrow at the likely accuracy of it all – there’re whole hosts of “that’s not how this works” blogs that excerpt the best of the worst of smutfic – but honestly, the sexiness of it all doesn’t really shock or surprise me.
The problem is that you’re making more of this than you should, and it’s bleeding from the actual issue (your jealousy) into other areas (Durian is toxic/abusive/manipulating Peach). This is actually fairly common, especially if you’re not used to dealing with jealous feelings. Everything is ultimately stemming from that, and that’s where you should be paying attention.
Here’s the thing: jealousy is often like a check-engine light. It’s telling you that something needs to be addressed. It may mean that you’re feeling like a need isn’t being met. It may mean that there’s an actual problem… or it may be something as inconsequential as “the gas cap isn’t tightened all the way.” When you’re feeling jealous, it’s good to take some time to give the relationship a check-up and figure out if the gas cap is loose, or if the transmission’s about to fall out of the cart. This means being willing to sit down with your partner and talk things through, as openly and honestly as you both possibly can.
If I’m being honest, I think this is a “gas cap isn’t tightened all the way” issue; in this case, I’d say it comes down to the fact that Durian’s important to Peach and takes a lot of Peach’s time and attention. That, I suspect, makes you feel like you don’t matter as much to Peach as Durian does, and everything spirals outward from there.
Her getting moody because Durian’s not writing may be stinging because it leaves you feeling like chopped liver. You’re right there! Why don’t you get the benefit of Peach’s attention in those moments instead of Durian? And the sexy smut… come on, doesn’t that mean that maybe there’re unresolved feelings there and you’re going to be put aside as the second place contestant?
Well… no, probably not. There’re two very important things to keep in mind here. First: Peach and Durian have known each other for decades. That means there’s going to be a lot of history there, and it’s clear that Durian’s been a pretty important part of Peach’s life. They may not have a romantic connection – or, rather, it may be a romantic friendship – but assuming that a multi-decade friendship is less serious or important than a romantic one just because it’s platonic diminishes just how important and meaningful friendships can be.
The second is that they first got to know each other when they were around 14 or so. A lot of what you describe – like the assumption that Peach and Durian would eventually move in together – sounds a lot like the sort of thing teens plan, especially when they have a particularly intense relationship with someone. You’ve seen enough anime; I’m sure you’ve run into the whole “childhood promise to get married” trope. This ain’t that far off. I wouldn’t include that in the calculus, frankly, especially since it seems like Peach correctly noted that this would’ve been a bad idea after taking steps to make it happen for real.
The co-writing these stories has been a part of their friendship and it’s been a big part of how they bonded and maintain their relationship. It’s not really that sus that she feels strongly about it, especially if it’s one of her primary creative outlets. Again, I would find the sex scene aspect of it a bit odd, but that’s because tastes vary and what’s weird to me is often normal to other people and vice versa.
But the importance and intensity of their friendship is tweaking your insecurities. I mean, the worry that if you and Peach have sex it won’t live up to her fanfic? That’s… honestly not something you need to worry about. Unless Peach really has issues separating reality from fiction, I think she’s fully capable of understanding that her fantasies are just that: fantasies. Yeah you’re both virgins, but you’re also grown-ass adults; you both should know by now that sex in fiction is pretty different from real life. As I’ve said before, sex in the movies (or romance novels or smutfic) is to sex in the real world as driving is to the Fast and the Furious franchise. I don’t think you need to worry that Peach is going to dump you because you aren’t able to fuck like her fictional crush could.
Nor, for that matter, do I think Durian is your competition for anything except Peach’s attention. And while that’s frustrating, sure, that’s also been part of what you signed up for. When we get into long term relationships with someone, it means that we’re signing up for a relationship with the holistic person… and that person is going to have other people in their lives too. Now that doesn’t mean that you can’t say “hey, I feel a little neglected” or to tell her that you’d appreciate some more of her time and attention, especially when Durian’s having a snit. But trying to excise Durian from her life (you know, “saving” Peach) is a mistake. Peach doesn’t want to be “saved”, nor does she need you to do it. Especially when your desire to “save” her is coming from a place of jealousy.
Is it possible that Durian’s a toxic friend? Absolutely. Do we have evidence of that? Not really. Most of what you’ve got are “well it must be bad because vibes”. And more importantly, Peach isn’t at a point where she’s willing to say that the bad has started to outweigh the good. It may well have gotten to that point already; a lot of folks cling to friendships out of momentum and sunk-costs, more than from what they get out of the friendship itself. But until Peach is ready to say “ok, I’m done”, there’s not much else to say. Certainly not if you don’t want this to end with demanding that Peach make a choice. And you might not like who she chooses if you make that demand of her.
Now are there things you can do to make life easier on all of you? Of course there is. Start with that Awkward Conversation and mention that you’re feeling neglected, and how she can help with that. When she’s getting moody because Durian’s plotblocking her, perhaps you can suggest that she write a side-story while she waits for Durian to get back to it. Looking at it as connected to the main story might be what unlocks Peach’s writing again; she’s writing solo, sure, but it’s part of what she’s been building with Durian. Having that permission structure might be precisely what she needs to start separating her own creativity from being utterly dependent on Durian. That, in turn, might – and I stress might – help her get some more separation from Durian as well.
But as frustrating as her friendship may be, toxic or not, there’s not really anything you can do. The only thing you can do is be supportive and encouraging and to ensure that Peach can come to you and vent or share her feelings, without feeling like you’re judging her or pressuring her to cut ties with Durian. If she feels like every conversation about Durian is going to be a discussion about why she should dump her, then she’s going to quit sharing with you, and it’s more likely to push her closer. But if you can simply listen and nod and be a sympathetic ear and not try to fix things, then you are creating a space where Peach can get to the place where she can decide if her friendship with Durian is continuing to meet her needs, or if it’s run its course.
So worry less about Durian or the fanfic. Focus more on what you feel’s lacking in your relationship, solving some of those insecurities that’re dripping poison in your ear and being a source of support and solace for Peach. That will help your relationship far more than trying to “save” someone who neither wants nor necessarily needs to be saved.
Don’t try to force the issue. Just be the appealing alternative of support and caring and trust Peach to make the right decision for herself.
Good luck.
I’m sorry to bother you and you may have gotten this question a thousand times. But I am very curious as to why my husband leaves the house with a cock ring in his pocket? Should I be concerned? Sometimes he leaves for a short period and other times he’s gone for awhile at his mom’s house (when no one is there). Today (for example) he was on his way out the door to take our daughter to school real quick (dropped his cock ring on the ground, picked it up and proceeded to leave) he then lied about forgetting to drop a box off at his mom’s (he had been there since dropping our daughter off) then proceeded to tell me he stopped there to take a dump but was really on the computer and was gone for a couple of hours. Should I be concerned or am I over reacting? He’s been acting strange and we just got back together after starting the process of going threw a divorce because I left him. After coming back I had found tons of dating profiles all over the internet and tons of women (pornstars included) numbers and messages not to mention sexual pictures shared between them and he dated one girl for a couple of weeks. I’m sorry I may be blowing this all out of proportion but I need some help and some insight.
Thank you for your time and sorry to bother you.
Dear Dr. NerdLove:
I’m sorry to bother you and you may have gotten this question a thousand times. But I am very curious as to why my husband leaves the house with a cock ring in his pocket? Should I be concerned? Sometimes he leaves for a short period and other times he’s gone for awhile at his mom’s house (when no one is there).
Today (for example) he was on his way out the door to take our daughter to school real quick (dropped his cock ring on the ground, picked it up and proceeded to leave) he then lied about forgetting to drop a box off at his mom’s (he had been there since dropping our daughter off) then proceeded to tell me he stopped there to take a dump but was really on the computer and was gone for a couple of hours.
Should I be concerned or am I over reacting? He’s been acting strange and we just got back together after starting the process of going through a divorce because I left him. After coming back, I had found tons of dating profiles all over the internet and tons of women (pornstars included) numbers and messages not to mention sexual pictures shared between them and he dated one girl for a couple of weeks.
I’m sorry I may be blowing this all out of proportion but I need some help and some insight.
Thank you for your time and sorry to bother you.
Overreacting Over Rings?
Right, I’m going to reiterate my point about fake letters: yes, sometimes folks will write bogus letters into advice columns in hopes of sneaking something in and fooling the columnist. Frankly, I don’t worry about it too much; most letters are ultimately fake or theoretical to everyone but the person asking for the advice, and even a patently bullshit story can have value for others. So if a letter has something that other people can learn from, then the fact that it was a creative writing exercise instead of a legitimate ask is ultimately an academic matter to me.
Now with that being said: OOR, if you’ve read my column for a while, you know I’m loathe to say definitively that someone’s cheating, and that a lot of suspicious behavior tends to have a perfectly normal reason for it.
Well congratulations, you’re one of the rare exceptions. There is absolutely hinky shit going on here. I can count the number of legitimate reasons why somebody would be carrying a cockring in their pocket on the fingers of one hand, with spares left over. And unless your husband is a urologist or sex educator or traveling sex-toy salesman… well, we’re basically down to “dude be fuckin’.”
I wish you had shared more details, like how long the two of you were separated, because that would at least supply some context to things like the number of dating profiles, sexts and dates. If it was a long separation or a particularly bitter one before you two got back together, then his being on dating apps again would make sense. You left him, you were going through divorce proceedings, he’s following the path of “get over your ex by getting under someone else”.
But if you two were only separated for a couple of months… well, I’d be wondering if he had a foot out the door already. Or just how old some of those messages were.
Now I don’t know what exactly’s going through his head. Maybe he’s not fully reinvested in your marriage after that near miss of the divorce. Maybe he’s pretty sure that this is just the eye of the hurricane and the divorce is still going to happen.
Or maybe he’s checked the fuck out and doesn’t really care. The fact that he can’t be bothered to, y’know, not carry a cockring around when going out and about is certainly a sign that he’s not terribly worried about being caught, especially with the number of times he just heads out for hours with no word as to what he’s doing. That’s a level of carelessness that suggests that he just doesn’t give a shit if you know or not. And if he’s really being that callous, then sticking around is just going to make you miserable. There’re few things more deadly to a relationship – and to someone’s self-esteem – than contempt and disinterest.
So no, I don’t think you’re overreacting. I think you’re underreacting, frankly. If he’s not actively cheating, then at the very least he seems to not care if you suspect that he might be. That’s not great, to put it mildly. Even if he’s only acting this flippantly and not actually doing anything, it would suggest that he doesn’t give a flying fuck about how it makes you feel. Or, worse, he’s being deliberately careless, which would just be cruel.
What I don’t get is just why he got back with you. If he’s this callous and casual about things, then I’m left scratching my head over what he gets from not just going through with the divorce. Unless the cruelty is indeed the point, it makes little sense. Which is why, again, I wish you’d given us some more details, if only to put things into context.
But as things stand? I think this relationship ended a while ago. From what you’ve written, I don’t think anything’s going to get any better. If anything, it’s only going to get worse.
So trust your gut: yes, this is sus as hell and it’s almost certainly time to go. I think the best thing you can do is recognize that getting back together isn’t working and it’s better to go forward with those divorce proceedings.
Good luck.
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