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Dear Dr. NerdLove: Near the end of the summer, one of my friends really pushed me to try online dating after he met his then-gf. At the tail end of August, I created a Hinge profile and to my surprise I was getting matches within a week. A lot of women were drawn to my dancing pics and I found that I was good at coming up with messages that got their attention. At the peak I had just under 30 active matches I was chatting with.
If we fast forward a few months, I’ve gone on dates with 12-15 women (it’s honestly a blur) and for the most part they were attractive to me in person and I was happy to be on a date with them. I’ve even gone out with a women I met at my salsa classes. If you told me a year ago that I would have all this experience I would have laughed at you.
Just as I climbed that peak, I ran into a bigger mountain ahead of me. The pattern that I’ve noted is that the women I went out with and I liked never seem to be interested in a 2nd date with me. I’ve made 2nd date plans with a few of them and then they do a 180 the next day and text me “thanks but no thanks” along with “I didn’t feel chemistry/spark/potential”. This came to a head this past weekend where I had 3 dates lined up over 2 days. I had a 2nd date scheduled with the IRL woman from Salsa class, a coffee date with a Hinge match, and a walk through a garden park with another Hinge match. The Salsa woman cancelled on me the night before and both the Hinge matches declined a 2nd date after we met, all 3 of them cited a lack of chemistry.
How can I get better at creating chemistry between me and my dates? When I go on a date with someone, I tend to treat it like I’m talking with one of my friends. I ask a lot of questions about them and use those as jumping off points to other subjects and I’m really good at making conversation, I make them laugh. I rarely have a first date last less than 2 hours and there’s never a lull it it. They seem to enjoy it and are actively involved. It goes by really fast. Is that the wrong way to go about it? I’m feeling very low right now. The woman from yesterday called our date “pleasant”. That word cut me deeply for some reason.
For most of my adult life I’ve been really worried and focused on my external presentation (physique, clothes, skin, hair, hobbies, etc) but this most recent experience on Hinge has left me feeling like those things aren’t an issue and that my problem is much deeper than that, I’m just not romantically exciting. How many great opportunities have I pissed away in the past few months by not being able to flip that switch?
I need some encouragement after this emotional kidney-punch of a weekend,
Dancing Fool
First of all DF, let’s address the obvious: you’ve been making some astounding progress. It’s as you say: this time a year ago, you would’ve laughed at the idea that you would be having as much success and improvement as you’re experiencing. It’s important to recognize that, to realize just how far you’ve come and to appreciate all that you’ve accomplished. Focusing on the latest frustration is certainly understandable, but it also misses the point and minimizes just how much you’ve grown and improved.
But here’s the thing: part of what you’re experiencing is precisely because you’ve leveled up. Think of it this way: you’ve outgrown your previous challenge level. The things that you used to struggle with aren’t a problem for you, and so you’ve moved on to the next set of challenges. These new challenges would have been all but impossible for you this time last year. But the thing you have to understand is that these challenges are commensurate with your new skill level. You feel like you’re sliding backwards when in reality, you’re facing new, more difficult tasks that you could never have accomplished before now. So just as you rose to the occasion before, it’s time to rise again. You already know you’re capable of doing this, it’s a matter of applying that same drive and determination that you utilized before.
So with that in mind, let’s talk about your new stumbling block.
What you’re facing now is something a lot of folks encounter, especially as they improve their social skills. Where before the challenge was meeting people and getting dates, now the challenge is connecting with them and learning how to build the combination of attraction and emotional engagement that leads to second dates, third dates and more.
Now to be clear: there’re going to be additional complexities built into this situation. One of the things I can’t emphasize enough is that dating is a numbers game, particularly online dating. As I’ve said many times before, when it comes to dating apps, there’re a host of signals and cues that help determine who we’re attracted to or compatible with that we can’t percieve except when we’re in physical proximity to one another. So there will be times that you’re going to meet folks who seem like your ideal match on paper and even via text or video chat… but when you meet in person, there’s just no spark. No chemistry. No attraction. And it can seem mystifying until you realize that if you’d met them in person, you might find them physically attractive… but they still would do little for you.
But let’s talk about your struggle and how to build chemistry. Part of the problem is that you’re making a false assumption about yourself. You’re assuming that “romantically exciting” is a state of being. It’s not. “Romantically exciting” is something that you do, not something that you are. It’s a verb, not an adjective. Being exciting is about taking action. Chemistry doesn’t just happen, it’s built. So if you want to start progressing through these challenges, you have to look at this as things that you make happen, rather than things that happen to you.
Now what we call chemistry – that feeling of excitement and attraction to another person – is a balance of the physical attraction and the emotional engagement, and it’s important that you have both… plus a third component that brings it all together. But put a pin in that, I’ll be coming back to it.
First, let’s talk physical. As I’ve said before, love and attraction aren’t just emotions, they’re quite literally chemical as well, a blend of oxytocin, dopamine and endorphins flooding the pleasure centers of the brain. Oxytocin in particular is often called “the love hormone” or the “cuddle hormone” because of how it prompts feelings of affection and connection with others. Part of building chemistry with someone entails understanding how you can help trigger the production of those hormones – something that we often do without realizing it when we’re having a great first date. There are a number of physical triggers that prompt our bodies to generate oxytocin, but the ones that are the most easily accessible on a first date scenario are physical touch and laughter.
Laughter is one of the reasons why Pete Davidson, for example, is famous for… let’s just say kicking outside his coverage. He’s a sweet, legitimately funny guy and he’s a skilled comedian. The fact that he makes women laugh – real, genuine laughter – is a significant part of his appeal. Being able to make somebody laugh means you’re making them feel good – the oxytocin reduces levels of cortisol (the stress hormone), increases feelings of connection and safety and improves the other person’s mood. This helps trigger what’s known as The Reward Theory of Attraction – we instinctively prioritize relationships with people who make us feel good over people who don’t make us feel quite as good.
Touch is another important part of chemistry. Touch is incredibly versatile – it conveys meaning and emphasis, it helps build comfort and attraction and helps foster feelings of connection with others. And to be sure, touch is an incredibly important aspect of not just social bonding but general well-being and emotional health. America in particular is an incredibly touch-starved culture, leading to conditions that doctors refer to as “skin hunger” – a need for physical connection via touch with people in our lives.
Touch is also an important part of eroticism and attraction; if someone doesn’t like how you touch them, it’s going to negatively affect how they feel about you. But if you know how to touch people, it can be an incredibly delicious sensation.
So right off the bat: these two areas are important for generating chemistry. But it’s not a matter of telling jokes like you’re practicing your tight-five at an open mic night, nor is it about clinging onto someone like a lovesick octopus. Instead it’s about knowing how to use those effectively… which is to say, knowing how to use them to flirt, effectively.
Flirting is the art of emotional engagement. When we flirt, we’re not just making it clear that we like somebody, we’re connecting with them on an emotional level, encouraging them to enjoy themselves, to let go of fears and inhibitions and to feel free to do the things that they want to do. But flirting is a game of sorts; you want to tempt and encourage, to build tension and release it. Think of it like a kitten with a piece of string. If you let the string just lay there, it isn’t that interested. But if you slowly pull the string away, the kitten will pounce and chase it. The more you keep the string just out of the kitten’s grasp, the harder it’ll pursue.
So to help build chemistry – and to create that sense of enjoyment – you can’t just give someone what they want. Letting the interest build then keeping the payoff just out of their reach makes it that much more appealing and that much more desirable. So ideally you want a push-pull sort of dynamic; you let them come close then step away. Or you let them have a moment of touch and then take the touch away. You give the good feeling, then you dial the good feeling back. Give a little more of that good feeling, then dial it back again. There comes a point where the other person craves that good feeling precisely because you release that tension.
Think of it like the tension built as music keeps hinting at the hook, never fully dropping the part you want to hear until it builds to a crescendo, or a dance that starts slow and builds in intensity.
But you don’t just want to focus on flirting. You want to foster a genuine connection with people. Engaging them on an emotional level – demonstrating that you want to get to know them, that you want to hear what they think and have to say, showing that you and they have so much in common – feels great too. I have friends who would fall in love on dates precisely because they had incredible conversations with someone who seemed to really get them on a deep and fundamental level.
And wouldn’t you know it… good conversations, meaningful emotional engagement that makes someone feel understood and validated also generates oxytocin and dopamine.
Now there are a lot of ways to combine these, and a lot will depend on your personality and the personality of the people you’re meeting. Part of being good with women is learning how you can mix this combination together in ways that are congruent and authentic to who you are.
To give an example, you may use use light and welcome touch early on in a date – offering someone your arm as you’re walking, a hand on the lower back as you guide them through a crowded room – to help start the initial rush. You might use a gentle touch to the upper arm with the back of your hand to emphasize a point during a story or a high-five during a particularly exciting or funny moment during the date. You may find a reason to run a finger along the inside of someone’s wrist or the back of their hand, creating a slight shiver.
During this you are telling fun stories about some of your experiences or drawing out their stories and validating them for being so awesome – you’ve never met someone who made you think differently about this subject or who taught you something new or exciting. Similarly, you may tease them gently or entice them with the idea of doing something fun but unexpected, or slightly taboo – asking them to dance when they don’t normally dance, sharing an indulgent dessert when they “shouldn’t” or otherwise encouraging them to be in the moment and enjoy themselves in ways they usually don’t or don’t allow themselves to do so.
Being exciting – getting their heart rate up and engaging their central nervous system is another part of this. Often when someone says that we’re pleasant, it’s because things feel nice, but tame. Enjoyable, but not something really engaging or exciting. Increasing feelings of excitement in our dates helps beat back the feeling of being “pleasant” and makes it “thrilling” instead.
Because we don’t know where our feelings come from, we tend to base how we feel emotionally on how we feel physically, and then backfill the reasons based on what’s around us. If our pulse gets elevated and we breathe faster, we know we’re excited… but why? Well, if you’re, say, racing go-karts or dancing or doing something fun and thrilling – thus generating dopamine – then you’re going to associate those good feelings, not with the activity but with the person you’re with. The activity is nice, but the person is why you’re doing the activity in the first place. So having more active, involved and exciting dates goes a long way towards generating those feelings of chemistry as well.
It’s important, too, that you’re showing that you’re interested in them as more than just a platonic friend. You want it to be clear that you find them attractive, even desirable. If you aren’t showing that you want more than friendship, then they have every reason to assume that’s all you want. Not connecting at that level, leaving them feel like you don’t like them the way you would hope someone likes you after a good date, leads them to retroactively downgrade the experience from “romantic date” to “hanging out with a friend.”
Now, remember when I said that there’s a third component to chemistry? Well, this is one that is going to be important – especially for you. You need confidence. You need to be coming from a place of self-assurance, where you know that you’re attractive, that you’re desirable and that the people you want in your life will be worthy of you. Flirting and seduction don’t work when your behavior is timid or hesitant. The difference between the emotions you’re projecting versus the actions you’re taking become incongruent and confusing. You need to believe both in yourself and in your date enjoying herself in your company, and your ability to facilitate her enjoyment.
This is why, for example, planning a date is better than playing it by ear and proposing a specific activity at a particular place and time is far more attractive than saying “let’s hang out some time”. Instead of relying on her to do the heavy lifting, you’re leading the way, making things happen and demonstrating that you know how to show somebody a good time. You’re giving her something to say “yes” to and to get excited about, instead of asking them to plan their own date for you.
The same applies when it comes to building chemistry. You have to be bold, willing to take changes and put yourself out there, to risk rejection instead of playing it safe. Safe is pleasant. You want thrilling and excitement. That means having the confidence to do more than stick to the known and the tried and true.
This doesn’t mean that you need to be smoother than silk, nor does it mean that you need to believe that success is inevitable. You simply need to be assured of what you’re capable of and knowing that the right people will be lucky to be with you… and you want to know if she’s one of those lucky few. If she doesn’t like you, then that’s her loss; she clearly wasn’t right for you and thus it’s better for both of you to move on.
Now if all of this seems like a lot to keep in your head at the same time… well, that’s because it is. But like dancing, what seems complicated and difficult at first quickly becomes something you just do, because you put it into practice. You practice the disparate aspects individually, you practice putting different aspects together and you practice putting it all together at once as you drill those other parts from conscious incompetence into muscle memory. And yes, first dates that may not lead to second ones are part of the practice.
This is part of the journey. This is how you level up and pass this stage of your development. It’s difficult, yes, but that’s because you’ve proven that you’re up to the challenge. If you weren’t, you wouldn’t have gotten this far in the first place.
Embrace the doing over the being, focus on building chemistry and excitement instead of treating it as a passive state and you’ll find your skill level will grow… along with your success.
Good luck.
Dear Dr. NerdLove:
I’m an incel loser and most women ignore me or are downright hostile, but I sometimes catch girls out with their guy checking me out, I think.
I’ve also noticed that my guy friend’s girlfriends are often really warm and sweet towards me, it’s completely the opposite of how most women treat me.
I don’t understand this dynamic. Why are women in relationships nicer to me?
Split Personalities
This one’s easy, SP, it’s all down to perception and behavior. Yours, specifically
Here’s what’s going on: you’re seeing the reactions that you expect from people. But what you’re seeing isn’t necessarily what’s actually there; you’re interpreting what you see based on what you expect. You describe yourself as an “incel loser”, which is going to color your expectations. You think you’re repulsive and undesirable and a creep – all things that come with the “incel” label. Small wonder then that you interpret women’s behavior in the worst possible way. You expect them to be repelled and disgusted by you and so you see that in their reactions when the reality is that their reactions are likely far more neutral than you believe.
In fact, I’d go so far as to say much of the behavior you’re seeing likely has very little to do with you at all. It’s just very easy to assume that it’s all about you – the generic “you”, not you specifically SP – because we’re all the main character in our own stories. But everyone is caught up in their own stories, and we rarely have the time or bandwidth to spare for folks who just happen to be in our visual range; most of the time we perceive people without actually seeing them.
Similarly, your self-description affects your behavior. You anticipate repulsing or scaring women because you see yourself as an “incel loser” and that affects your attitude, your body language, tone of voice, even your word choice when you talk to people. You’re preemptively reacting to a hostile response that hasn’t happened yet. That preemptive reaction ends up causing the very response you’re expecting.
Things change when you’re dealing with women who’re in relationships in part because you see them differently and have different expectations of them – and thus you see them as having different expectations of you. Since you know that these women are “unavailable”, in a sense, you don’t feel the same emotions towards them nor expect them in return.
Since they’re not potential sources of rejection – and thus you aren’t expecting a hostile response to your expressing interest in them or even just existing in their presence – you don’t have the same anticipation of disgust or anger. This changes your attitude and behavior and likely means you’re acting in a much nicer, more social manner. And since you aren’t anticipating rejection or expecting them to dislike you, you interpret their behavior in a more positive and welcoming light.
This is why I tell people that one of the best things they can do for themselves is to assume that people already like you, especially when you’re hoping to meet new people. Having a mindset that the people you meet are already friends helps prime your brain to interpret their actions in a positive sense and to encourage you to behave more positively and in a more pro-social manner.
Practice expecting the best out of people – including giving up the “loser incel” label for yourself – and you’ll start seeing that people are far more warmly disposed to you than you expected.
Good luck.
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