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Dear Dr. NerdLove:
I’m (m/24) a reader for the last few years and I never expected to actually have a question for you but I guess I do now. I’ve got a girl (f/22) I’ve been seeing for a while and things are going ok and I know what you’re going to say so yes here comes the but: I want more than she does. So here’s the background.
Jodi (not her real name) and I had always had a spark or something since we met, but she’s always been in a relationship. Eventually she and her long term boyfriend broke up and I saw my chance to tell her how I feel. She told me that she liked me and she found me hot but she didn’t want a boyfriend right now and it wouldn’t be fair to me because anything we would have wouldn’t be the sort of relationship I wanted. I told her that that was ok, I was cool with whatever and I wasn’t really looking for something defined anyway. She didn’t sound like she was interested so I figured that I could at least tell myself I took a shot. Like you always say at least now I know, yeah?
Well a couple weeks later Jodi and I met up for a drink before going to a friend’s birthday and one thing leads to another and we never make it to the party. We’ve been hooking up when we get a chance, with our schedules that means maybe once a month, maybe twice if I’m really lucky. We talk a lot, she tells me a lot about what’s going on in her life, I tell her all about mine, things are pretty good, yeah?
Now they’re not. She’s told me about a guy whos a friend of a friend of ours and he’s always had a thing for her and now he’s finally asked her out on a date and she’s thinking about saying yes and now I’m stuck because I agreed that we were just FWBs and I was going to be cool with whatever we had. I didn’t lie really, I meant it when I said I was cool with it but I guess I’m not because the idea of her going out with him is freaking me out. I’m literally laying in bed not able to sleep because I keep checking to see if she’s on WhatsApp to see if she’s back from seeing him or I’m trying not to think about them and it makes me want to scream.
So I guess my question to you is, is there a way to get her to reconsider just being friends with benefits? I’m not sure I’m cool with it any more and the last time I brought it up to her I kinda wanted to see how she felt so I said I was going on a date with this other girl I knew. Jodi said that was great and she hoped I had a good time so I guess that didn’t work, yeah? So now I’m stuck. How do I take back being cool with whatever we had and tell her I want her to be with me and not this other guy?
I don’t have a clever acronym or something for your column so I guess call me
Seemed Smart At The Time
Oof. Well SSATT, you can take some comfort in my having been in your shoes. I have quite literally been there and done that… more than once, actually. And, well, it’s kind of a shame you didn’t write to me before you made that call because I could tell you from bloody experience: never make a promise that you can’t actually keep. Even if you think you mean it at the time. Hell, especially if you think you mean it at the time. Because you know and I know damn good and well that you didn’t mean it. Not really.
Here’s where it went wrong: you fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is “never tell your girlfriend her ass looks fat in those jeans unless that’s what makes her hot to you”, but only slightly less well known is this: “never accept a part of what you want because you think you can leverage it into more with enough time.” And let’s be honest, just you, me and everyone reading this column: that’s exactly what you did.
This is the reason why a lot of folks have issues with hooking up rather than dating: when two people go in with different expectations, folks get hurt when those expectations no longer line up. And unfortunately, that’s what happened to you. One of the worst things you could do in a situation like the one you describe is pretend to not want what you actually want, whether it’s because you’re afraid that expressing that desire means you lose “power” somehow or because you’re afraid of what would happen if you asked for what you actually want. But as you’re discovering, half a loaf – hell, a fifth of a loaf – is not better than none. Not when it comes to dating, anyway.
Let’s break down what happened here, shall we? You and Jodi have always had chemistry and mutual attraction. That happens. Just because someone’s in a relationship doesn’t mean that they aren’t going to be attracted to other people. But by that same token, just because someone is attracted to you doesn’t mean that they’re going to leap into your arms (or your bed) the moment they broke up with their partner. Just because someone broke up – even if it was a break up that needed to happen – that doesn’t mean they’re thrilled to be rid of their ex and they’re ready to move on to the person they really want. More often than not, they’re gonna need time to process, to feel their feelings and to adapt to being single again.
This is why the dudes who circle around waiting for someone to be single are so obnoxious. The idea of “gotta get to them while the window is open,” and you have to race to get there first like an episode of How I Met Your Mother, sends the message that the only feelings that matter are yours. Yeah, their relationship ended and that may be hurting… but hey, that also means that they’re single again and if you’re not at the front of the line, then you’re just gonna be shit out of luck.
I’ve seen this happen in real life and let me tell you: not only is it offensive to the person who just broke up, but it doesn’t work like that either. Someone who’s newly single isn’t going to just take the next person in the queue, even if they are the sort of person who goes from relationship to relationship. So the jockeying for position really just tells people that you aren’t thinking about their needs at all.
Anyway, I got sidetracked. Sorry. What I mean is that, Jodi may like you, she may think you’re fine as five Fridays and cute as Christmas, but that doesn’t mean that she wants to date you. She may be cool with banging on occasion – again, she’s attracted to you – but that doesn’t mean that she’s ready to date… period. Even if she finds you unspeakably fuckable, that doesn’t also mean that she thinks you’re relationship material, nor does it mean that she’s going to be open to dating anyone right now. Getting an itch scratched by someone you’d climb like a tree but never actually commit to while you’re recovering from a break up is a time-honored tradition that crosses gender and sexuality lines. The fact that you’re the ride they’re currently taking doesn’t mean that they’re going to upgrade you to a more permanent position when they decide it’s time to date again.
Just as importantly, though, is that while it’s possible for FWB relationships to turn into full bore relationships, it’s not something you can count on. And if you go into any sort of non-monogamous or uncommitted relationship with the idea that you can somehow change their mind? All you’re doing is annoying them (if you’re lucky) and setting yourself up for an avoidable heart break. Because believe me, 99 times out of 100, if you pull this routine, you’re going to hear “…I told you when we started that I didn’t want a boyfriend/girlfriend.” And I say this as someone who’s been on both sides of that particular equation.
You also haven’t exactly made great choices by trying to start a jealousy plotline with your whole “I’m gonna go date someone else too, what do you think about that?” First, you’re under the assumption that Jodi’s going to get jealous and that this is some measure of whether she’s into the idea of dating you. As anyone in a poly or open relationship can tell you: just because you’re jealous doesn’t mean you’re not gonna be cool with them dating someone else. Second, that’s assuming that she’s going to get jealous at all. If she’s seeing this as a couple of friends who’re having some no-strings, care free sexy times and that’s it, then your dating someone else isn’t going to be some earth-shattering revelation. It may mean the sexy fun times are coming to an end, but hey, her bud is moving on to something more serious! Good for him!
Honestly, you’d have been better served to just use your words and say “Hey, I know I said I was cool with whatever we had, but my feelings have changed and I’d like an actual relationship with you.” While that might not have gotten you the answer you want, at least, you would’ve gotten an answer early on instead of staying in this particular status quo. Then, at least, you’d have been free to move on instead of staying longer and getting your heart broken.
Like, y’know. You did.
And here’s the thing: bringing it up now, now that she’s apparently getting ready to start dating (or has started dating) this other guy? That’s not going to do you any favors. At best, it’s not going to get you anything other than a “…sorry.” At worst, it’s going to seem like you were cool with things, right up until she was seeing someone else and now you’re responding out of jealousy. That’s not a great look.
Now if you want to do shoot your shot anyway and see what happens… well, I can’t stop you. Being able to tell yourself that at least you tried may bring you some peace. But if I’m being honest? I think it’s only going to make you feel worse when she turns you down. Because then, not only will it feel like you got shot down, but it’ll also feel like you got dumped because he was better than you when… well, bluntly, when you weren’t ever in consideration in the first place.
Since I don’t have a flux capacitor or a TARDIS, the only thing I can tell you is that you’re going to have to take this as a learning opportunity. You screwed up this time. Now you know what not to do in the future, so you don’t end up in this place again. It’s not what you want to hear, I know… but it’s the best option you have.
Good luck.
Hey Doc, would you ever date someone who talks about their relationships online?
After having a COVID enforced period of involuntarily singleness, I’ve been getting back on the dating apps. I’ve had a handful of dull first dates but otherwise I either don’t get matches or the people who want to match with me or message me first aren’t women I’m into. At least, not until one woman matched with me who was *way* out of my league. I know you say that there aren’t such things as leagues (long time reader!) but this woman is a nine and I’m a six on a good day. My first thought is “catfish or bot” I swiped right anyway and the conversations we’d been having have been too real to be a bot.
She gives me her name and of course I still think its sus and I know how to find people on social media and stuff. So I look her up and so far everything is real, posts to Instagram on days when she said she was doing stuff, lots of pics of her that line up with what’s on her profile. I’m pretty sure that this is a real person and maybe I’m just lucky. But she mentioned a TikTok in one of her stories and I find her on there and it seems like all of her videos are about dates she went on with guys or the guys she’s seeing and telling stories about all of these bad dates and stuff or asking about if something is a reason to dump or not. She’ll post clips of messages and ask her followers to roast them in the comments or talk about cringe and stuff.
I don’t know what to think, Doc. Part of me wants to actually see her because she’s really *really* hot and we have a lot in common and we had some really great conversations in the chat. The rest of me thinks this is some sort of weird WEC trap.
What do you think? Is this a trap? Is this real? Should I go through with this?
Is This Bait?
Right, so I guess it’s time to reiterate my police about fake letters again.
There’re folks who will write fake or fantastical letters to columnists in hopes of either tricking people into weighing in on something stupid or just for the thrill of pulling one over on someone in public. Most of the time, the fakes are really easy to spot, but I’m sure a couple have gotten by me before. Now as I’ve said before: I don’t really worry about getting fake letters in part because all letters to advice columns are ultimately theoretical to 99.999% of the people reading the column. If I think there’s something that people can learn from in the letter, then hey, there’s value to be had in it, real or fake.
So with that in mind, I’m going to take a slight digression and talk shop for a second. One of the things that comes up a lot when you write about sex or relationships is how much of your own life to mine for content. A lot of sex writers have said that they felt almost obligated to not just write about their own adventures but to go and seek out stuff specifically so they had something to write about and how this could start fucking with their actual lives. At the same time, I’ve also heard from folks who’ve talked about how writing about sex or relationships have affected their social lives – people who are worried that if they date or sleep with this person, they’re going to end up seeing themselves show up in print somewhere.
Hell there was an entire TV show and two movies about that, back in the day.
Actually, it’s sort of like dating a comedian, now that I think about it.
Now I’m not saying that everyone who writes about dating, sex or relationships does this or that it’s inherently bad to do so. I reference my own dating history and experiences on here in part because I like to show that I’ve been there and done that and I’ve undergone my own journey. But the worry that other folks have about ending up being content for someone else’s work is real and it’s understandable. It’s happened to plenty of folks who found their dates or hook-ups showing up in columns or stories afterwards.
If you’re lucky, it was someone just writing for their college paper or something. If you weren’t lucky, it was someone like Tucker Max.
(No, I don’t care how many of his exploits were complete bullshit, that’s not the point here.)
Now I bring this up because there’s literally nothing new under the sun. The TikToker/Instagram/Snapchat/some-other-new-platform-I-don’t-know-about-yet-because-I-am-An-Old influencer talking about all the bad dates they’ve been on or talking about their relationships or roasting people they dated… this is just Sex and the City for the 21st century. Just, y’know, with greater opportunities for things to spiral out of control because everyone wants to feel like they’re part of the story. The whole West Elm Caleb fracas, the guy that TikTok was determined to prove was cheating on his girlfriend because he didn’t get off the couch fast enough… all of this feels like an engineered supervirus that escaped containment and got out into the wild.
Needless to say: Jesus tapdancing Cheeto Christ I am glad that I grew up before social media blew up. Having to factor the odds of becoming someone else’s viral content would be exhausting. The September that Never Ended was bad enough.
(IYKYK)
To drag this kicking and screaming back to relevance to your letter, ITB, I have an admittedly uncharitable suspicion here. I feel as though some of the folks who have made a brand out of mining their dating lives for social media content aren’t actually trying to date so much as just have more material to keep their fans engaged. Part of the problem with using your own adventures for content is that this creates a perverse incentive, consciously or unconsciously, to go on dates or have experiences that you can write up later. And because of the way algorithms on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok etc. work, the material that gets the most engagement tends to be negative – either complaining about someone or dunking on them for reasons. And to an extent, this is understandable. Let’s be honest here: there isn’t nearly as much audience engagement to be mined from a date that goes well. Certainly not nearly as much that will drive engagement as one that goes badly or could be seen to go badly – see also Caleb, West Elm. There’s a reason why the movie wasn’t called Blackhawk Up! after all.
After all, for all that someone may be saying that they want to find a relationship and they want to settle down, it’s hard to make the pivot when your entire brand has been about roasting dudes who you went on shitty dates with. The fans aren’t going to be nearly as eager to tune in next time to hear that everything went great, you had a lovely time and can’t wait to see them again. That’s the sort of thing that’s ultimately the end of the story.
So no, I don’t know if this is a trap, ITB, or if it’s a trap specifically for you. So assuming this is real – mighty big assumption, but let’s roll with it – then finding a TikTok where my Tinder match just savages dudes she went on dates with would set my Spidey-sense tingling far more than the “leagues” issue. At the very least, I’d be suspicious about her motivations. The fact that someone goes on enough bad dates to have a TikTok channel devoted to it suggests either someone with a broken picker – in which case, you should stay away – or they’re going on bad dates deliberately, in which case you should stay even further away. And this really is a Kobiyashi Maru sort of situation because calling her out on it will just lead to a “So a guy I matched with found my channel” video instead and you end up content anyway.
But let’s be real here, ITB. If this is real – again, big if – then the bigger question is “why are you still thinking about this?” I think we can agree that this because she’s a “nine” (ugh) and you’re letting dickful thinking get in the way. There really isn’t a scenario that you can turn this around and make it work for you. There’s no incentive for her to suspend everything just for you, calling her out about her channel won’t help, and at this point, now that you know what you know, you’re going to be so on guard that you won’t be able to relax, be authentic and actually enjoy the date even if it were in good faith.
Which I doubt.
If you were to try to make a go of this – which I don’t advise – then the only thing I would suggest is that you do a 15 minute pre-date date, where you propose meeting up some place of her choosing – a local coffee shop, a book store, something – for a brief coffee with a hard time limit because you have an appointment or other engagement to get to. This way, you could, in theory, see if anything about meeting her in person sets off your Spidey-sense. And in the worst case scenario… well, it’s pretty hard to get much engagement bait out of 15 minutes and a latte.
But honestly? I’d just write this off as a “nah, I’m gonna pass” and go find a match who wants what you want too.
Good luck.
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