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Dear Dr. NerdLove: I think I know what my issue is, and that it is unfixable, but I’m taking some advice from others, and I saw your advice to others, where I thought I’d give the advice a chance.
To paint a picture of myself, I am a 38 year old virgin, going on 39, through my own means, albeit, not intentionally. I grew up through some boys schools, was told when I was going to Uni by my dad that while women would be about, they were not for me. In our culture then (Sikhism), it’s not something which was looked upon well, and I was brought up in a relatively traditional household.
However, traditions don’t always work out, and I regret sticking to that tradition, and using escapist tactics I suspect as a coping mechanism.
Furthermore, I also work within a corporate company, with very few women within my workplace. Almost all are either significantly younger than me (I.e in their early 20s), or are married with kids. It is a similar deal for the majority of my friends and their friends. In essence, the old single people I tend to meet are via dating apps, which I have stepped away from. After all, Albert Einstein did say that stupidity is repeating the same mistake again and again, and expecting a different outcome.
I have a number of hobbies, which I do both alone, and with others, with me generally not turning down many social opportunities. These include cars, motorbikes, music & gigs, climbing, walking, cycling, cinema, DIY and projects around the house, or with others sightseeing, as well as wining/dining/going out.
I have been on a number of dates over the years. However, none of them have led to anything romantic. While I may have made friends via some, I have never managed to strike a romantic ‘spark’ from any of them. Several of them have enjoyed my company as a conversationalist, and have said they feel at ease with me, but nothing ever more than that.
I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t shy of women. Sure, I can talk and be at ease with them, and engage in mutual banter; my humour is dry, probably as a result of a defense mechanism from years ago for unknown reasons. However I now make folks aware of that, stating that I should just be told if I’ve gone too far ; people I know have a habit of thinking I am being serious at times, despite it not being the case. But touch (basically a no from me, due to the fear of repercussions), compliments on their looks (On their actual achievements I feel I am fine with), are things that I truly struggle with, in all honesty.
I have for a while started dressing well, according to friends, even look good. While I doubt this, I do make an effort to go dressed as well as I can (without going OTT) when going out for a date.
I feel the above is down to the fact that I wrongly obeyed advice, when I should have broken it. Living at home throughout most of my life probably did not help matters here, as it only enforced the above. As I said above, it’s a huge regret of mine not taking some initiative to do things differently, so that I have ended up in the situation I am in today.
I noticed you mentioned a muscle needing working, before it withers away, with regards to ‘creating’ the skill of making that romantic spark. What above if that muscle was never used, due to being told what not to do, thus, it being too late? I suppose the analogy I’ve had for the past year is that if a person hopped on one leg for half of their life, they would not be able to use the ‘rested’ leg 40 years later, as the muscle, and the means of the mind to even know how to use the leg would not work well.
I have tried to come to terms over the last two years, with accepting that I will always be alone to the end, and not have a romantic or even a sexual connection with anyone (bar paying for the connection), which has been an up and down struggle for myself in all honesty. Dealing with that, and looking at the positives of the situation (I.e no breakups/heartbreak, fears of messy divorces which I have seen some friends go through, deceit, freedom to do as you please regarding holidays, plans, being there for friends and family and prioritising those to matter to you most etc.) can be a real emotional rollercoaster if I am honest.
I send this message as a last-ditch attempt to ask if there is anything I can do. If you are out of spit with what to advise, I’m prepared for whatever answer you hold, be it a means to either:
-Suggest how I cope with being eternally alone, more than I am doing so at the moment
-A suggestion of how a dusty middle aged wreck can have one final stab before accepting his fate in life.
Yours sincerely,
The Eternally Lonely Bloke
Let’s start with something obvious: you’re presenting me with a false binary, ELB. You have far more choices than “learn to be alone forever” and “I have only one more chance before I’m alone forever”.
In fact, there’s a lot you can do. The question is whether you’re actually going to do it.
The problem you’re having isn’t that you’re an older virgin – there’re plenty of those – nor that you don’t have any relationship experience (ditto). It’s that you’ve already decided that the problem is intractable, insoluble and permanent and you aren’t doing the things that you would need to fix them.
The thing is, you have set yourself up to undercut your own attempts at improvement with this belief. If you’ve decided in advance that you’re already doomed and this is your inevitable future, then why would you bother putting in meaningful effort to change things? If you don’t believe the effort would actually result in meaningful improvements, then what would be the point of actually giving it an honest, deliberate and dedicated effort? By your own reasoning, this would be a waste of time and energy since it’s just going to fail anyway. That more or less makes it impossible to change by setting up a self-reinforcing cycle; you don’t believe that you can actually improve, so you don’t put in the effort necessary to do so, which means that things don’t change meaningfully, which reinforces your belief that you can’t actually improve.
So if you want to change things, you have to start with changing your mind and your beliefs. And part of it is to recognize how much of this is self-inflicted. You mention in one paragraph that you have gone on a few dates but these have not lead anywhere and women – who liked you – didn’t feel any romantic spark with you. Then, a paragraph later, you specifically mention all the things you aren’t doing that are necessary to actually create that spark. You’re not flirting, you’re not touching them or generally indicating that you actually like them as more than friends or that you’re interested in a romantic or sexual relationship.
To quote one Savage, Adam: well there’s your problem! I mean, women (who also have to work to find and connect with potential partners) are only going to put in so much effort to try to draw out some signs of interest. If the person sitting opposite from them at dinner isn’t giving any indication that they’re attracted or interested, they’re not going to keep trying to make it happen. They’re going to assume that the other person isn’t interested and move on to finding someone who is.
Well, it’s like I say all the time: if you want someone to think about you as a potential lover, then you have to act like a lover, not a friend or someone who just isn’t interested. And as a corollary: if you want things to be different, you have to do things differently.
The place to start will be with your belief that it’s already too late and that there’s nothing you can do. You’ve already shown that you can change your beliefs – you let go of the beliefs your parents foisted on you. So you know it’s possible. The key is that you have to be willing to do so.
That means you have to be willing to accept that you are wrong. Which is the hard part, in part because you’ve made this part of your identity. We have an almost instinctive inclination to reject things or beliefs that challenge our sense of self because we perceive those changes and challenges as dangerous and frightening, even when the changes would be a net positive. This means that you have to actively and deliberately challenge those beliefs and ask the question “what if I’m wrong?”
You also have to be willing to accept that being wrong means that yes, you’ve spent a lot of time not doing the things you’ve always wanted. That can be hard to swallow, especially when you can recognize that it’s the result of choices that you’ve made. This is part of why it’s much easier to assume that it’s too late; it spares you the feeling of embarrassment and shame at taking responsibility for your choices and decisions. And if there’s one thing that’s universal among the human race, it’s that we’ll try to avoid feeling shame and humiliation at all costs… even when those costs include our own happiness, now and in the future.
So, in asking and accepting that you’re wrong, you also have to be willing to forgive yourself for being wrong and making decisions based around being wrong. You have to be willing to forgive yourself and understand that you made the best decisions you could with the information you had at the time. Now you have new and different information, and you can make different choices.
Case in point: your whole metaphor about unused muscles. You’re objectively incorrect on that, on many levels. Leaving aside that this isn’t how muscles work and that you can, in fact, rehabilitate and strengthen an under-utilized muscle, you’re also mistaken that you’ve never used it before. You have, and you’ve used it frequently… you just never recognized that this is what you’re doing.
What do I mean? It’s very simple: you have friends. The social skills you use to make friends are the same skills that you use to meet and date women. You’re talking to people, getting to know them, finding commonalities and building connections that become relationships. Those relationships are built through time spent together, bonding with one another, sharing insights and experiences and doing things that you enjoy with one another. You express affection and appreciation, show that you care and generally give of the emotion you want to receive from them.
Well hey, guess what? That’s literally how you date and meet women. The only difference is that your intent is to build a potential sexual or romantic relationship, rather than a platonic one. That, as I said, requires that you behave like a potential lover, not a potential friend. That, in turn, requires that you be willing to show people that you find them attractive and desirable, that you’re interested in them physically and romantically.
Which means you’re going to need to actually do things like tell people you think they’re attractive and demonstrate your feelings of affection.
Now this is going to require that you do things that, up until now, you have been steadfastly avoiding because you’ve convinced yourself that your expression of interest is inherently unwelcome and intrusive. You’re going to have to be willing to let that belief go and take those first, tentative steps towards actually expressing yourself. And yes, that means that, like a baby deer learning to walk, you’re going to be awkward and ungainly for a bit and you’re gonna fall down a couple of times.
But, like that fawn, you’re also going to be getting back up, taking more steps that are more steady and secure as you get used to what you’re doing, and soon you’ll be moving around with a degree of grace and skill. The only difference is that you’re going to have to consciously work through the pain period, where you’re aware that you’re still learning and that you have to think through the steps as you’re doing them. However, you already have experience doing this; this is literally how you have learned to do almost everything in your life. You just don’t remember, because so much of it was from so long ago.
Does this mean that there might be some mistakes or awkward moments? Sure… but those are not going to be as bad or as fatal as you think, and the vast majority of people you meet are going to understand the difference between malice and a genuine mistake, and will accept a sincerely offered apology. You can also avoid a lot of your fears by simply recognizing that you can use your words. You can ask, for example, if you can give someone a hug or take their arm in yours; in fact, asking “may I take your arm?” can bring a very gentlemanly vibe to the proceedings. You can say that you want to kiss someone or ask if you can – not only is this not a mood-killer, but when deployed correctly it can be very hot.
But the thing that connects all of this is that it’s all going to require practice – deliberate practice, where you choose to do these things with the intent of expressing yourself. You can’t wait for things to be “perfect” or to find moments where success is guaranteed or risk is non-existent. Those moments never come and no time will be “perfect”; you have to make the moment happen, and the imperfections will be part of what make it perfect.
You also have to not be afraid of being imperfect yourself or having everything go exactly right. The sage once said that it’s possible to commit no errors and still fail; well, I’m here to tell you that you can also make mistakes and still succeed. Failing at something doesn’t make you a failure, nor does it make success impossible. You aren’t going to connect with every person you date or have feelings for, but that’s ok; that’s true for everyone. The important part isn’t succeeding every time, it’s that you’re making the attempts and not giving up because it didn’t work out perfectly the first time you ever stepped onto the field. Or the second or third time, for that matter.
If you can accept imperfection and practice as part of learning any other skill in life – and you already have – then you can accept it here, too. But first, you have to accept that improvement is possible, that failure is neither inevitable nor inescapable, and that you aren’t doomed to live alone forever. You have to accept your own agency in your own life. Unless and until you do, then nothing can improve. But if you can accept that you can, in fact, make changes and make improvements? Then you can accept that those changes and improvements, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant, will stack and build on themselves, leading to the point where you want to be.
But that’s a choice you have to make. If you want to make things better for yourself, to have the love and companionship you clearly long for, then you have to take the steps to make it happen. You’re the only one who can; nobody can do it for you. In the end, it’s entirely up to you. The future is unwritten; you’re the only author, so it’s up to you to make it a good one.
Good luck.
Hello Doc !
I have a weird feeling and I want to explain this. I’m casually dating a girl who I really enjoy and I think about her a lot. That’s good right? Well, when we were talking about our past and such, she told me that she used to date this guy who was a gymbro; you know, the kind of man who is at 12% body fat all year long. The thing is, I’m really different to the man she used to date. I’m skinny, I enjoy boxing and such, but I’m not an Adonis like the guy she dated. So I don’t understand why is she dating me. I’m not her type if she used to date guys like him! I mean, if you put a photo of me on tinder I will get 0 matches. I’m not an Adonis. So is she lowering the bar? Is she trying to prove herself something?
She told me I was “the best man she knows” but..? I don’t know. Now I think the whole relationship is like a test for herself. I feel weird doc.
Second Place Is First Loser
My dude, let me ask you something: do you only eat one kind of food? Do you only listen to one musician or band? Do you only watch exactly one television show or read only one type of book? Play one kind of game to the exclusion of all else? Fap to only one porn star?
The odds are that no, no you don’t. You may have some things you prefer or that you’ve consumed a lot of, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t or won’t like anything else. God knows I love me a good cheeseburger, but that doesn’t mean that I also don’t love a really nice cacio e pepe or sushi or pad se-ew. And what I eat the most of or eat most regularly doesn’t mean that it’s my favorite dish. It just means it’s something I like a lot and will have frequently, for many reasons.
The same thing goes when it comes to dating. People often have “types” – general collections of attributes that we gravitate towards, for one degree or another. That doesn’t mean that those are the only people we can be attracted to, nor does it mean that we’re less attracted to people that aren’t like that. It may – and I stress, may – mean that, all other things being equal, they’ll choose their ‘type’… but that requires all other things being equal.
It also – and stick with me here – doesn’t mean that their type is what you think it is. Someone’s type may be about their build, or it could be about that person’s personality and mind. It could be their overall interests or attitude towards particular beliefs or activities or their goals and ambitions. Or it may be a combination of many things, because attraction isn’t a single-issue subject. People are very rarely attracted to just one thing about a person – certainly not to the point where they’d have a long-term relationship with them. Attraction is holistic, especially when it comes to romance; a person may be different or lacking in one area, but there’s so much to adore in these other areas that what’s missing or different doesn’t matter.
There’s also the fact that you’re assuming that you’re not her type. It strikes me as being a little arrogant, presumptive even, to think that you know her better than she knows herself. The fact that her last boyfriend was an athlete with a particular build doesn’t mean that she only wants guys built like Reacher.
Clearly that’s not the case, seeing as, y’know, she’s not dating him, she’s dating you. And she’s telling you that you’re the best man she knows. That would be what I would call “a pretty big clue to how she feels”.
Is she “testing” herself? Trying to “prove” something? Why would she do that? What would she be proving and who to? Why, when all our hours on this earth are finite and limited, would she want to spend them making some nebulous and abstract point to nobody in particular? And has literally anything about her behavior ever given you the impression that she’s likely to do that?
Or is this entirely down to your projecting your feelings onto her?
I realize that all the red-pill, alpha-male, fellas-is-it-gay-to-have-sex-with-women shit online can get in your head and twist things up, but that’s all about male insecurities about other men. It’s rather pointedly not about what women want, especially considering how women who sleep with men, when given free reign and choice, date and fuck a wide variety of men. And in this case, she’s choosing to date you.
This is what we in the dating advice biz call ‘snatching defeat from the jaws of victory’, my guy. The weird feeling you have isn’t about her, it’s about how you feel about yourself. You can either accept that your snugglebunny is actually and genuinely attracted to you, or you can call her a liar, but this is really about how you feel about yourself.
If you really want to give up a good thing by questioning her sincerity and telling her that you know her type better than she does, that’s up to you. But that strikes me as giving up a good thing because of what other people – almost entirely men – have told you about women, rather than listening to the woman who is right there with you and telling you that she wants to be with you, not her ex or guys who look like him.
Sometimes you gotta just take “yes” for an answer and put up the W.
Good luck.
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