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Hi Dr. NerdLove,
I fell in love with a man in 2017. We worked for the same company, so we met everyday. He also confessed he loved me within few days. I told about him to my parents just to convey how happy I was to meet him, but they didn’t agree and asked me to end things with him. I told him about what happened, but neither of us took it seriously. We hoped our parents would agree if we stay strong. After that I noticed he hardly texted or called me, we just used to meet in office. After 6 months, I asked him why he is being distant. He said he got engaged to someone arranged by his family. I was hurt as he didn’t ask me before saying yes. But he said he still loves me so I tried everything I could for making him stop his marriage and requested my parents to meet him. They said okay but my bf was not ready to meet them and he said he couldn’t stop the marriage due to family pressure.
Then we stopped talking for few months. In 2018 he got married. I couldn’t get over him so I texted him and met him to ask why he didn’t fight for me if he really loved me. He said due to family pressure he couldn’t do anything but he still loves me and will come back. He said he told his wife that the marriage was forced and asked for divorce, she said okay but requested for time. I did wait till now till 2022, all these years he told many reasons for delay in divorce like his wife needs time, he has some financial issues, his family problems. Though I know something is fishy, I still believed. He didn’t ask me to wait but every time said he loved me and he will be back for sure, I couldn’t move on.
During this period, he hardly texted and never called. I also didn’t text much except to ask when he will be back. He used to ask me to meet him and go for trips. I didn’t as I don’t want to mess things as he is still married and as per him divorce talks are going on, so I waited patiently. In between I gave up and told him to compromise and live with his wife and accept her. As a well wisher I wanted to wish him happiness and overcome my feelings, but he said he cant be with his wife he wanted to move to another country and asked me if I am fine to join. I said I can only do so after his divorce. I waited for 5 plus years and without any progress , so I tried to find the truth myself through some sources and found he is staying with his wife and 1 year old daughter, there are no issues between them. I was shocked , until last month he was bluffing and lying that he would be back.
I am feeling stupid that I spent these many years waiting for a married man, is it really wrong to wait ? I understand people wont accept this, but he said his wife agreed and it was mutual, otherwise I am not a marriage wrecker. I could have respected myself and stopped talking to him after his marriage. But I couldn’t, and now I feel guilty for believing him. I told him I came to know the truth and he still lied that all that is not true. Its been over 20 days he didn’t even apologise for wasting my 5 years and giving false hope. I am feeling very bad, questioning my self worth, on why he lied all along, if he said he didn’t love me long back , I could have dealt with it .
Did I really do a blunder? My friends told me I was stupid to wait for someone who is married. I know its wrong but I trusted him and thought he was trying his best. Now that I know he never considered me, I am clueless why he lied and I am feeling terrible for making bad decisions and realising I cant get back the time I waited. After knowing the truth, I realised I know nothing about him, he never loves me, he showed what he wanted to show, then who is the man I am in love with, does that mean I am loving someone who doesn’t exist. Now I don’t know how to move on as I still have feelings for him, I couldn’t even resent him for what he did.
Sincerely,
Need A Time Machine
Well I’m not going to beat around the bush here: yes, you wasted your time on this guy. There really isn’t any other way to honestly describe it.
HOWEVER. That’s not the issue. The issue is that you were conned, NATM.
It’s an unconventional way of looking at things, I realize, but your ex was basically running a con game on you. He wanted to have your time and attention, your emotional investment in him and access to you, but without having to actually commit in any serious way. All the privileges and none of the responsibilities that come with actually being in a relationship with someone.
Sadly, this isn’t all that uncommon. There’re folks out there – across the gender and sexuality spectrum – who will string folks along without ever actually committing or investing in the relationship. These sorts of lopsided relationships can be platonic (with toxic or enabling friends) or romantic (with one person actually having feelings for the other) but they all share one crucial similarity: the person at the center walks the line of giving just enough to keep the other on the hook, but never so much that they actually have to do anything.
It’s that “just enough” that’s insidious. One of the ways that toxic people keep their victims on the hook is through what’s known as “intermittent reinforcement”, where the rewards (the partner’s positive attention and affection) are given frequently, then pulled back; soon, the neglect and negative attention become the norm and the positive attention is doled out sporadically, almost randomly. Those small hits of positive attention hit much harder because of the neglect and thus motivate the recipient to work harder to try to trigger them.
This is why I don’t think you’re stupid to have loved someone for so long, even when it was obvious that it would never happen. It’s easy to say “you should know better, it’s so obvious” when you’re not the one who’s actually living through it. Doubly so when you’re dealing with someone who knows how to manipulate people.
And the thing is: everyone is vulnerable to it. The ones who can see it in others often don’t see it in their own relationships until it’s too late. Much of the time, we only recognize it for what it was afterwards.
Much of it starts with trust. When you go into a relationship in good faith, you rather understandably assume that your partner is doing so as well. You don’t, for example, assume that they’re just there to get whatever they want, on their terms. It may seem a bit naive to folks who’ve been bitten before, but it’s not unreasonable to assume that the people we care for and who claim to care for us are being truthful.
That’s why the lies hurt so much when we finally recognize them; they shake our fundamental understanding of the world, even our sense of who we are.
But that primary belief – that our partners are in this relationship in good faith – is precisely what makes it possible for us to not recognize lies and manipulation for what they clearly are. We believe the excuses and the rationale because we want them to be true. We don’t want to think that the person we care for, that we’ve invested in is a liar and a fraud. We don’t want to think that we are the sort of person who could fall for this.
And the longer that goes on for, the harder it is to admit. The more time, money or effort you’ve invested in something, the harder it becomes to give it up, even when it’s clearly not working. When we give so much to something, it becomes a part of our identity in some way; giving it up would mean that we wasted time or resources on this thing that has come to have significance for us. The more we invest, the more it means to us and thus the harder it is to give it up. We throw good money after bad, invest even harder in hopes of making up for the loss on the back end. At least we might break even, we think.
But eventually the point comes when there’s nothing left – no resources to invest, no willingness to believe and no ability to ignore the truth. When we hit that point, we have no other choice but to admit the truth: that this will simply never happen, no matter what we do. And the pain hurts all the more because now we see how much we’ve lost and all the off-ramps that we ignored. Now not only do we mourn the loss of what could have been, but we also have the extra sting of feeling like a fool. The humiliation is the chef’s kiss, the eau de “fuck you”, the extended middle finger offered to us as they walk away.
Now, we can twist ourselves into all sorts of knots to explain why someone does this, maintains a relationship in bad faith with someone they clearly don’t or won’t care for. Maybe your beau was too mild-mannered to go against the wishes of his parents. Maybe he just digs having someone dancing in attendance, finds it powerful or validating to let you be his orbiter while he does whatever he wants.
It doesn’t matter. Whether it’s behavior born out of being to weak to actually stand up for themselves or to face confrontation or whether it’s actual maliciousness is ultimately irrelevant. The motivation doesn’t change the impact, and that impact is pointless, needless pain.
Yes, NATM: you wasted your time on this guy. There’s no getting around that, nor is there getting any of that time back. But there are two more important things to focus on. The first is that you’re never going to waste any more of your time on him. And the second is that now you know. Now you know what to look for, you know that the measure of a potential partner are his deeds, not his words, and you know that your time is far too valuable to waste. You can’t change the past, but you can protect yourself in the future.
But to do that without developing the same cynical callus on your soul that so many others get will be harder. To do that, you have to be willing to forgive yourself. You were taken in by someone, gave your trust to somebody untrustworthy. That sin is far more his than yours. Your worst sin, such as it is, was to love someone not too wisely but too well.
You don’t need to resent him for what he did. Resentment is too good. The best thing you could do for yourself – and the worst thing you could do for him – is to consign him to oblivion. Let this mistake be your past, a thing to be moved on from. Recognize him for the liar and con that he was, then don’t give him the reward of letting him occupy any part of your mind from hereon out. Forgive and forget… forgive yourself, but forget him.
Good luck.
Hi Doc,
Second time posting a question here. This year I decided to roll up my sleeves and signed up for a speed dating event to see where it goes. It was actually quite fun and hey presto I matched with this hot woman. We have gone out twice over the course of a weekend and the dates were fun. First date I took her bowling and then dinner because I wanted something different for a first date as an icebreaker and then second date I took her to see a local aquarium and then dinner . She had mentioned on the first date that she liked aquariums so I kept that in mind and organised the date. The second date went on for about 5 hours, we talked deeply and laughed. She seems like an amazing person. However, I have a case of jerk brain fucking with me.
Why do I keep on thinking that somehow she is losing interest in me? As I said the dates went fine, she actually told me that she liked the fact that I took initiative and planned everything. In fact for the second date she recommended we go to a movie and then I took the aquarium idea out of my sleeve and suggested it, which she immediately liked. During the dates we held hands, flirted and she teased me a lot I didn’t mind it was fun and at the end of them, we kissed for a few seconds which is fine I won’t pressure her to do physical stuff if she is not comfortable with it at the moment. She also mentioned “I have never met a guy like you before,” if that’s good or bad I guess I have to find out.
Where I constantly keep getting worried is that on the first date I mentioned that I did not have relationship experience, which was not a deal breaker for her but she was really curious about it. I mentioned it simply did not happen and was scared to get into relationships in the first place. She even gave me her own thoughts when I mentioned the situation with my brother in my first letter in the link above. What she was concerned about was if we continued seeing each other, whether I would be willing to do things on my own more often, because I was not used to doing them with someone else. I am rather worried that she is going to lose interest and dump me.
I need advice. Am I overinvesting in this or simply rushing things out since it’s not everyday that I go on dates with a hot ambitious woman who has her own business, very independent and not afraid to let loose? I got smitten by her and I really want to see where this goes since I do not have a dating track record. Obviously I want to give her space, I can see she does not have the time for texting during the day because she has a printing business, business coach and she is also a part time real estate agent… however I keep checking my phone to see whether she texted which I really hate doing for fuck’s sake.
What do you think? Thanks for your help.
First Time Dater Worried
Slow your roll here, FTDW. You’re getting spun up over very little, and it’s doing you no good at all. Getting worked up about things will do far more to sabotage anything you have going on with this woman than, say, taking a deep breath and letting the anxiety pass.
There’re two things you need to understand.
The first is that you’re doing this to yourself. What’s going on, primarily, is that you haven’t accepted that you’re someone women would want to date. This is one of the reasons why we talk about how your attitude affects your outcome – your belief is the filter that dictates how you see the world. The Ru Paul quote of “if you don’t love yourself, how the hell are you gonna love anyone else” ultimately means that, if you can’t recognize your own worth, your own desirability, you’re not going to be able to accept it from others.
This mindset is a classic example of confirmation bias; because you don’t believe that women could possibly be interested in you, you immediately zoom in on signs that she’s not interested or losing interest. The positive signs – you’ve been on two dates, she’s shown active interest in you as a person, the physical affection – mean less or, worse, can be seen as signs of lack of interest. Yeah you kissed… but couldn’t that be out of pity, not desire?
Part of how you get past this is almost deceptively simple: you assume that everything is fine and exactly as it seems: someone who’s enjoying her time with you. If you aren’t given direct and clear evidence that something is wrong, then you should assume that all’s well.
Now, I know some folks are already yelling about how that’s a mistake, how that’s going to cause you to overlook things or you’ll just end up getting hurt. But here’s the thing: trusting your gut is only good when your gut is trustworthy. Right now, your gut isn’t trustworthy; you’re still very much in the “this has to be a mistake” sort of mindset and your gut is primed to confirm that. Even if there were signs of something potentially being wrong, you are not in a place where you can accurately interpret them or even be sure you’re seeing them. You’re having a difficult enough time accepting signs that she likes you.
Learning to accept your own desirability is going to be important. So is taking “yes” for an answer.
Here’s the second thing you need to keep in mind: she may well lose interest or decide to break up with you, regardless, and that’s ok.
Yeah. I know that’s not necessarily the advice one hopes to get when what you’re ultimately asking for is reassurance. But it’s the advice you need, because a big part of what’s underpinning this anxiety is a scarcity mindset. You’re feeling especially tense and worked up about this because this is the first time you’ve felt like you could be heading towards something beautiful and you’re worried that it’s also your last.
Well I’m here from the future to bring you good news: no matter what happens here, this isn’t the last date you will ever go on. This isn’t the last person who could ever like you. And this won’t be the last person you will feel this strongly about.
It’s like the song says: if you don’t have her… you’ll have someone else.
Now don’t get me wrong: I’m sure she’s as great as you think she is. But while she’s special to you, she’s not unique. There are other women out there who are going to be as attractive, as ambitious and driven and interested in you. She’s just the one who’s here, now. That doesn’t take away from her specialness; it just means that she isn’t worth the level of anxiety you currently feel. You feel this anxiety because yes, you’ve over-invested in her. While she’s great thus far, you still barely know her. You aren’t even in the “fart openly in front of each other” stage, never mind the point where the prospect of not dating her is keeping you up at night. She’s a relative stranger and she has not earned the level of emotional investment you have given her thus far.
Yes, this sounds cold. Yes, it sounds dismissive. But the truth is that her single greatest feature is that she’s here, now, and it’s a new experience for you. If and when you have more experience under your belt, you will understand that the appropriate feeling at this stage is “I like what I’ve seen and I’d like to see more.” You’re still learning who you both are, and whether there’s enough here to make it worth your time to give things a go. If things don’t work out, that will be sad and it will sting… but it won’t be the end of the world. There will be others.
This is why my advice is to recognize that she is great, but not special… yet. She may earn that position with you – just as you might earn it with her – but you’re not there yet. So for now, rather than looking for signs that she’s losing interest, assume that all is well. Assume that she likes you and take a mindset of “OK, I like you, let’s see if we’re compatible, too”.
And if it ultimately doesn’t work? Well… it sucks, but all it means is that you two simply didn’t mesh in the way you needed to for a relationship to work. That’s a shame, sure… but it’s not anyone’s fault. It’s not a sign that its a flaw in you, any more than it’s a flaw that regular gasoline doesn’t work in a diesel engine. It’s not good or bad, it just is.
Relax. Assume things are ok. Browse the apps a bit, talk to people… have a life that isn’t just waiting with sandwiches by the phone. She’ll get back to you or she won’t. Either way? You’ll be fine. The worst case scenario is that you’ll date someone else just as wonderful.
Good luck.
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