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Hi Doc-
I (m/30s) have a complicated question. There is someone I work with, let’s call her B, who I have become attracted to. We have worked together for about 8 months. We work at a college, in an office setting though, not a classroom. I am a professional staff member, B is a graduate assistant (and I know what idea “student” likely conjures, so let me elaborate that she is in her upper twenties, has worked professionally for multiple years, and then came back to school for a second master’s). We work on the same team and our jobs have pretty much identical functions, so we spend a preponderance of our time at work together. Through this we have become very close, and through that closeness, I have caught feelings pretty heavily.
There’s a part of me that wants to ask B out and see if she’d be up for a date or is interested in a relationship. We have great conversations and chemistry. When we work together, we usually talk nonstop, joke and laugh, talk about personal lives and family (for example, she says that her parents and grandmother sometimes ask her how I’m doing by name. She’s even brought up me meeting her parents when they come visit). She’s also been pretty open with me at times about emotional things, and I’ve tried to be supportive when she brings up personal ups and downs from her life.
I feel like I am getting good signals from her. There are sometimes playful touches when we joke, heart emojis in her texts to me, and a couple times she has blown a kiss when we are parting ways. She has initiated hugging me a couple times- a hug goodbye when I dropped her off at home, a happy hug in response to me sharing some good news with her. All that in mind, I should mention she comes from another culture. She is native Brazilian, and my American (USA, that is) self does sort of wonder if these could come from a different cultural norm, or if they do come from attraction. But she also compliments me on things like my smile and my fashion sense, we have our own in-jokes, and when she has traveled on a couple vacations, she has brought me back a small souvenir of some kind (and not done so for others we work with).
There’s definitely also a part of me that says the fact that this is a work relationship makes it a bad idea. I have been quite intentional to only text her about work-related things- trying to avoid overstepping, because although we work side by side functionally, in position title I’m senior to her (that said, we do maintain the same joviality when texting). I have not really spent that much time with her outside of work for the same reason, other than a few going-away parties for coworkers at some bars in town, although she and I sometimes make plans to go out for lunch together during the day (the two of us that is, not with a group).
The final factor might be that she will only work in this office for another few months, as she will graduate from her program soon. She will also likely move to another state to better find work in her field. Point being that I have a shrinking window to make whatever potential move.
There are other thoughts in my head… say she were interested, would she be having the same thought as me and not explicitly showing it since it’s in a work setting? I’m not saying that I’ve assumed that’s what’s happening, because that seems like a bit of a leap to assume with certainty. If I ask and it’s a no, is that going to make working together awkward? (I’m the type of person who can respectfully leave it at a “no thanks” and keep moving without hurt feelings. I feel like she could be the same way, but who can know.) Or- any potential awkwardness would only be for a few more months max, so could that factor almost be in favor of making a move? More practically, what’s the best way or setting to ask something like that to someone you work with (my thought was to bring it up when the two of us are out for lunch… maybe just a tad closer to her end date in case it does generate awkwardness)?
Any insight is surely appreciated,
-Maybe, Just Maybe
There’re two questions here, MJM, but the problem is that the answers are… well they can seem related, but they honestly aren’t. The first is whether she’s interested in you. The second is whether you should do anything about it.
I get questions about flirting and dating coworkers on a semi-regular basis, and it’s always a controversial topic. A lot of people will tell you that dating a coworker is always a bad idea, while others point out the idea that the dynamics that dictate who we become attracted to don’t end when we clock in at work. And it’s true that propinquity and exposure are large drivers in who we become attracted to; considering that Americans spend more time at work than pretty much anywhere else, it’s understandable that feelings are going to develop. My general advice is a) check your company’s policy about fraternizing with coworkers and b) consider dating people who aren’t in your immediate department.
But everyone’s different, their circumstances are different and it’s next to impossible to come up with rules that will apply equally in every situation.
If you’re basically doing clerical work and don’t have direct control over her employment, advancement or her grades at the college, I think ethically you’re in the clear. But whether this is a good idea… that’s a different story. However, before you make a move, let’s talk about whether there’s something there in the first place.
One of the continual truths that I’ve observed in my time is that people are very bad at knowing when someone’s flirting with them, rather than being friendly. Straight men, in particular, are at a disadvantage in this. Because so many straight men are socialized to be emotionally distant and reserved with their affections – especially with their friends – while women are socialized to be so much more demonstrative and open, we have a tendency to read more into friendly behavior than is actually there. This is especially true considering how much we’re taught that emotional intimacy is a precursor to sexual intimacy. This is one reason why straight men are more prone to putting themselves in “The Friend Zone”; they’re so unused to the ideas of platonic physical affection and emotional intimacy with platonic friends that they assume a greater level of interest than is actually there.
(Standard disclaimer: there is no such thing as “the Friend Zone”; there are just people who don’t want to date or sleep with you.)
And that’s before we get into how bog-standard dickful thinking colors people’s perceptions.
So let’s talk about how you can tell some of the differences between “flirting” and “friendliness”. While there’re some general signs that a person is interested in you, but it’s a mistake to assume any one thing is a sign or not. One person’s preening behavior is another person’s fidgety behavior; one person’s casual touch to create intimacy is another’s “just a touchy-feely person.” So part of what you want in an ideal situation is a baseline for that person. Some people are very physically demonstrative and expressive. Other people can seem cold and closed off, despite being incredibly warm and friendly when you get to know them. The more you have observed B with other people, the more you’ll know whether she’s like this with everyone or not.
This is especially true when it comes to telling whether she’s flirting or if this is normal behavior. Is she as open and demonstrative with other platonic friends? Is she hugging you because you’re special, or just because she’s a hugger? Is she generous with her friends – giving little gifts or trinkets because it made her think of them – or is it just with you? Not just your fellow office mates but her friends. Is it possible that you and she are close, but not romantically close?
Another key would be the sort of things that she jokes or talks about with you. Does she ever ask questions that would tell her whether you’re in a relationship? Or for that matter, does she ask you about your plans for the weekend that go beyond typical office talk? Do her jokes have a definite sexual edge to them that isn’t there otherwise? Does she make comments that reveal that she doesn’t have a partner right now or would appreciate company at a event? Has she ever asked or hinted about spending time with you outside of work – just the two of you? Not just lunch, but something that’s unquestionably social and non-work related?
How about her physical presence to you? Does she always seem to be much closer to you than she needs to be in the office, no matter how many people are around? Or does she constantly find random excuses to be around to come talk to you?
Just as importantly: would you find any of her behavior particularly unusual if you weren’t hoping to date her?
Now, let’s be honest: it can be hard to be objective about this, especially if you’re hoping that the answer is yes. But it’s important to try.
If you were to ask my opinion in a vacuum: I think she certainly likes you and wouldn’t be offended if you asked her out. Without that baseline, I can’t say for sure that she’d say “yes” or that she likes you more than as a good friend, but she definitely thinks you’re special and important to her. And, quite honestly, if it weren’t for the fact that you work so closely together, I’d say that the easiest way to find out is to ask her out on a date. However, there’re a few things that I would say warrant some skepticism on your part, and that make me hesitate to say “you should ask her out and see.”
To start with, as a general rule, if you find yourself trying to read the tea leaves, then it means you already know the answer and you’re hoping you’re wrong. This is especially true if you’re trying to gauge whether a platonic friend is interested in being less platonic. While second-guessing ourselves can be a curse we all wrestle with from time to time, when it comes to platonic friends, absent an unmistakable “hell yes”, it’s good to be skeptical.
I think you’re also feeling a time crunch. The end of the semester is coming and her graduation is approaching with it; the idea that you might “miss your window” is likely looming large in your mind. As a result, it’s possible that you’re feeling extra pressure to say something before she’s (possibly) gone for good. That self-inflicted pressure can cause you to feel like you have to make a move or risk regretting it forever. However, as I’m always telling people: a boner isn’t a mandate; just because you’re attracted to someone doesn’t mean you have to act on it, especially if you have abundance in your life. It’s not going to be the worst thing in the world if you don’t take your shot here.
But I think the biggest issue is that, yeah, you two work very closely together. It’s one thing if you work in the same general department. It’s another entirely if the two of you are pretty much in the same office. I think the risks – not just of her turning you down but of how a yes might affect things – are pretty high. I’ve known more than a few office romances that caused problems, not because of post-rejection awkwardness, but because the coworkers couldn’t compartmentalize to save their life. As a result, not only did their work suffer, but it made things awkward for the people around them.
And then there’s the fact that even if she did say yes, you (theoretically) only have a couple months before she graduates and potentially leaves the country. This is it’s own special kind of stress, especially if you see this as being something meaningful and deep and she sees it as a fun office fling.
With all that in mind, there is a solution here: wait. Like I said: under other circumstances, I’d say that you should just ask her out on a date – not lunch, not “get together some time”, but an actual date. Giving it a little more time would ease a lot of the potential complications. As it is, you don’t know what her plans are post-graduation. Hell, it’s entirely possible that she doesn’t either. It’s certainly possible she either is staying in the country, or isn’t leaving as soon as she has her degree in hand. You would, at least, have some time for the two of you to date and see where things are going, without the added complications of working so closely together.
However things turn out, keep in mind: even if you two don’t hook up, she’s a good friend and a special person in your life and you two have brought a lot to each other’s lives in the time you’ve known each other. That’s pretty damn good to have, even if sex or romance never enters the picture. Friendship’s not mutually exclusive with sex, but neither is it the consolation prize if a romantic relationship doesn’t happen. The more you can appreciate B – and other women like her in your life – as friends as well as potential lovers, then the more likely you are to find folks who’re interested in being both.
Good luck.
Dear Dr. NerdLove:
Ok, so I’m a single mom, recovering from an abusive relationship. I’m going to therapy to help with my PTSD and trauma. Since the break-up, I met a man. He’s been great in many ways, is supportive and understanding, and my 4 kids all like him.
When I was with my ex, I rarely had sex with him and if I did, it was out of obligation, pressure or coercion, and I had to shut myself off and check out to get through it. This went on for years.
So, with the new guy, I have found myself creating a bad situation. Though he has specifically asked me to tell him what I enjoy, and has tried various things to please me, I just can’t find the words to tell him what I want. It’s so hard for me to find my voice and say what I desire. And it’s so simple, really! I like everything he does, I just need him to use less pressure. When he touches me it’s just a little too much and while it sometimes feels good, sometimes it’s too much and I can’t orgasm. So, instead of being honest and speaking up, I have faked it. Probably two thirds of the time, I’m pretending to come. He’s trying really hard to please me! But now, I’ve reinforced the idea that the amount of pressure he uses is good, and that it doesn’t take me long to come.
I feel awful that I’ve been dishonest… and don’t know how to tell him the truth without him feeling betrayed and like all the times he thought I was satisfied were meaningless. I don’t know how to back track.
I’m also worried that he’ll feel frustrated or lacking in some way if it takes me longer to come than him or if I can’t come by the time he does. He has never indicated that, but now that I’ve set this expectation of what works for me, I don’t know how to get out of it.
Is it too late? Have I betrayed his trust too much? Is there any way for me to find my voice, get my needs met without hurting him?
Did It Again
If I’m being honest, DIA, I’m not entirely against faking orgasms. I don’t think they’re The Unforgivable Sin when it comes to relationships, and it doesn’t take much to see time when they would be handy or even necessary. I think, in general, it’s better to just advocate for your pleasure and to be honest with your partner and that sex doesn’t necessarily need to be orgasm-focused to be pleasurable… but I don’t think faking it is The Great Betrayal that you’re worried about.
This is especially true considering your past partner. You were in a tough situation and an abusive relationship, and this left its marks on you. It’s hard to feel empowered to say what you need from your partner when you’re used to having to disassociate to get through things. Circumstances with your ex meant that you created patterns that were necessary for your safety. Now you’re in a place where those patterns and habits no longer serve you the way they used to; you’re more than entitled to forgive yourself for this, in no small part because it can be hard to break out of those grooves when you’ve been in them for years.
But hey, you’re with a new, great guy! Someone you can trust and let your guard down around! That’s all to the good. So, rather than blaming yourself for falling back into a pattern built over years, let’s take this as an opportunity to start to carve a new and different groove for yourself. One where you allow yourself to actually say “you know what would feel amazing for me…?” Because here’s the thing: if this dude is as great as you say, he’s going to want to make you feel good. He’s not going to feel betrayed so much as “oh man, I wish you’d told me sooner so I could do things differently.”
However, that’s if you tell him you’ve been faking… which, quite honestly, I don’t think you need to. Certainly not right now. Relationships aren’t depositions, you’re not under oath and you aren’t required to tell your partners everything… especially not right in the moment. So I don’t think you need to say “hey, about all the orgasms I’ve been having? Yeah, only about a third of them were real.”
Instead, just focus on the “you know what would feel great?” framing instead. This doesn’t need to be a “hey, I’ve got some notes” kind of conversation; a breathy “a little lighter, ooh yes, like that” during sex or foreplay will be just fine. Trust me, a “oh yes, just like that keep doing it exactly like that” is going to be plenty of encouragement for him to keep at that pressure. Or you might take his finger (or what-have-you) in hand and demonstrate exactly how much pressure you want with appropriate noises and encouraging sounds. Not only will it mean that he’ll use the level of pressure you prefer, but it’ll be pretty damn hot in the moment too.
But what if he asks about the previous times when he got you off? Well, leaving aside the fact that preferences can change, telling him “that was good, but I like this even better” is the truth that doesn’t need the follow-up of “…and I’ve been lying to you this entire time.”
Now, if you want a prediction? I’d say that if you told him exactly what was going on – your ex was abusive, you would have to disassociate to get through sex with him and its hard for you to speak up in the moment – he would completely understand. And I imagine he’d want you to speak up if you need him to do things differently. But again: I don’t think that’s something you need to bring up, and I don’t think it’s information that he needs about the early days of your relationship. Since this is a “you” issue – in as much as you’re unlearning old patterns you needed for your own protection – rather than a “him” issue, I think you’re well within your rights to just let that remain a secret.
So thank yourself for protecting yourself when you needed it, forgive yourself for holding onto it when you no longer did, and focus on helping your beau find a new, better groove. And if things seem a little different or more enthusiastic in bed after you teach him? Well hey, it’s just a sign of the two of you getting into the right routine together.
Good luck.
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