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Hey Doc,
I’m a 28 year old man and have had a mostly great relationship with a 29 year old woman for the past year and a half. We work very well together and things are mostly going well romantically and sexually.
I say mostly because I have one kink that she doesn’t know about, and while I’d prefer not to discuss the details of it here, it’s not unsafe and is perfectly consensual, but generally regarded as odd, and somewhat well known to be many people’s hard limit. I wasn’t entirely sure of when to tell her of this at first, but she brought up the kink in a context outside of me fairly early in our relationship (more on that below), and that made me feel like I couldn’t.
With that in mind, I understandably feel hesitant to bring this up and ask about trying it together, but the situation runs a bit deeper than that as well. I’ve jokingly brought up things adjacent to this kink as a means of getting a barometer on what her attitude towards it might be, and every time these have come up, the response has been a very strongly negative attitude towards the thing(s) described. To make matters worse, the specific kink I do have has been in the news in our area thanks to a minority of community members acting poorly when it comes to the kink and keeping it out of non-consenting eyes, and the specific issues it caused in turn were a problem for someone very close to her. As a result, it’s hard to imagine her view on this as anything other than intensely negative, potentially outright hateful and dismissive.
Now, other than this, our relationship is wonderful, and I feel incredibly fulfilled, safe, and loved. I’m just frustrated, as I fear that this could ruin a good thing, and yet, I don’t feel like I can simply ignore this part of me forever. Should I tell her? If so, how should I approach this? If not, what should I do instead?
-High Stakes
I understand not wanting to talk about the details of your kink HS, but I wish you had. The details you give are so vague and so broadly applicable that you’ve all but guaranteed that people’s imaginations are going to fill in the gaps – often with the wildest and weirdest shit they can think of.
I mean, is it chastity play? Are you wanting to have your dick locked in a cage for hours at a time? Are you into water-sports and hope to talk your partner into either peeing on you or being peed on? Forced Femme? Vore? Puppy play? Adult babies? DD/LG play?
Notice how quickly things go from “weird but whatever” to stuff that dials the squick factor to 11 and snaps the knob off? That’s what happens when you’re talking about a polarizing topic like sex and kinks; in the absence of actual information, people will very quickly assume the most dramatic – and often most lurid, disturbing or personally repulsive – options.
Now, I say this because this is precisely why you want to actually talk about this with your partner. Otherwise, if you’re dating someone who’s mostly into original recipe sex and doesn’t have much experience with kink or the kink scene, then when they hear about kink in general or a specific kink, then they’re much more likely to leap to the wildest and weirdest. That’s not only going to taint how they see your kinks, but it also means that they’re going to be much more likely to be responding to inaccurate ideas about what your kink entails.
Just like everyone reading this who’s wondering just what weird shit you’re hoping to get up to. Even if it’s actually not that weird in the first place.
It’s also why, if this is something that’s an important part of your sexuality and not something that you like but can take or leave, then it’s something you should bring up sooner, rather than later. And, honestly? I think you should bring it up more directly than you did.
Here’s the thing about “trial balloons” or trying to bring up the topic obliquely so you can “feel things out”: it rarely works the way you’d hope. If one’s partner isn’t already familiar with that kink – or if that kink’s more of an edge case than something like foot-worship or spanking – then the odds are they only know the Hollywood Horror Story version of that kink.
And just as importantly, because you’re being so vague or talking about other people, your partner never gets that what you’re actually saying is that this is something that’s important to you. So you end up with a situation where she’s rejecting abstract, but you are the one feeling rejected specifically. That’s a great recipe for ending up exactly where you are now: trying to think about how to talk about something your partner’s said “ewwwww” to before, and had that “ewww” seemingly validated by news stories that rarely report on the topic in an objective manner.
I understand why you floated those trial balloons the way you did. I realize this can be intimidating, even scary. After all, you’re talking about something that, in your words, is a lot of people’s “hard no”. I also understand that you’re worried about your partner’s judgement and losing what is otherwise a satisfying relationship.
Well, let me put it to you this way: are you honestly ok with being in a relationship with someone whose love for you is conditional on your repressing or excising a part of you? If this is, as you say, something you can’t ignore and leave out of your sex life forever, then at some point this is going to come up with you and your partner, and it’s something she’s voiced serious dislike for. So this means that now there’s a clock ticking down the seconds until this particular bomb in your relationship goes off.
Would you rather have risked that explosion early in your courtship, when you haven’t invested as much time and energy on someone who may not be sexually compatible with you? Or would you rather wait until a year, two years, even ten years down the line, when you have so much more invested and so much more to lose?
Look, I understand that, as potentially squicky as your kink may be, it means that your dating pool is going to be limited. But you deserve a relationship with someone who honors and respects your entire self, not just limited aspects, and who actively abhors other parts. That’s not a recipe for a happy, healthy and supportive relationship. That’s a recipe for resentment and guarantees a flaw in the relationship that’ll cause it to end in ways that neither you nor your partner would want.
The timing of this conversation is going to vary from case to case, especially as you get to know your partner. In my opinion, it’s something that should be brought up before the Defining The Relationship talk. Even if it’s a “look, I don’t need this now or every time, but it’s an important part of my sexuality and sexual expression”, if you know that the conversation’s going to come up anyway, it’s better to have it come up at a time when you’re ready for it.
Now to be fair: sometimes you don’t discover you’re into a particular kink until after you started the relationship. But it’s still better to discuss it when you realize that it’s something you need – or at least want to explore – rather than letting it hang about in the background like Banquo’s ghost until you can’t ignore it any longer.
Yeah, putting your kink cards on the table early means risking this relationship ending before it even began… but at the end of the day, that’s a good thing. If this kink is something that you’re going to actually need to be at least an occasional part of your sex life, then that’s the exact result you want. You want the folks who are repulsed by your kink – or who can’t give it the ol’ college try for your sake – to peace out, and early. This is your filter, how you ensure that the people you’re dating are down with the wild adventures you want to take with them. If they’re actively against it or don’t think that they could be at least ok with trying it at some point, then it’s better to say “thank you, we are just not a good match, best of luck to you” and move on.
But, you didn’t. So here we are. What needs to happen now is that you’re going to have to have a conversation about kinks and you’re going to have to lay out that this is something personal to you, not just abstract freakos in your partner’s imagination.
This is a time for the Awkward Conversation formula, where you start off explaining why you haven’t brought this up before. Only now, you’re going to have to say “so, all the times I asked about X, it was because I wanted to know what you thought about it before I told you it was something I was into.”
Then you’re going to need to explain what’s entailed, why it’s something that gets your engine revving and explaining the difference between what she may have seen in the news and how people like you actually perform that kink.
You’re also going to want to tell her that, obviously, you’re capable of having satisfying sex without your kink being involved, but it’s a part of who you are, and it’s something important to you, and an aspect that you would like to share with her.
Then, when it’s her turn to talk, you’re going to have to brace for an immediate negative reaction and be prepared to explain it on a Kink 101 level if she has questions.
This is also going to be a time when you’re going to have to take her immediate reaction with a certain grain of salt. We live in a sex-negative culture, and often our first reaction is how we were taught to respond to something, rather than what we actually think or feel. So that knee-jerk “no, ew!” that you may get is more about a preservation of the status-quo. It’s what she knows and what she’s comfortable with. And you’re going to need to respect that “no”.
However, if you give her the space to think about it on her own and in her own time, she may – and I stress may – change her mind and be willing to at least consider it.
Or she may not. And in that case, you have three options. First: you see if exploring your kink with someone else – whether by booking sessions with a pro-domme or making connections in your local BDSM community – is an acceptable compromise. If this isn’t a kink that involves direct sexual contact, this may be something she could agree to and enable you to have both your partner and explore your kink.
Second: you continue to suppress this desire for as long as you possibly can. As I’m sure you know, that’s not really a viable strategy. Trying to force something away doesn’t make it go away, it just puts it under greater pressure. And then that pressure builds until it breaks containment, messily and all over the place.
Third: you recognize that this relationship, for as much as you get from it, is not going to meet your needs. You can love and honor and respect someone and still need to leave, because you have needs that can’t be met. And this would ultimately be kinder both to you – who needs someone who’s at least kink-curious – and your partner, who is only into original recipe sex.
Now, it’s worth remembering that every relationship is going to be a matter of compromise on both sides. Nobody gets 100% of what they want from a partner; you look at what you do get from that relationship and that partner and decide if what you do get is so good that you’re willing to forgo the rest as part of the cost of the relationship.
It’s a difficult situation, HS, and I don’t envy you. But it’s better to actually talk this out with your partner, instead of hoping that you’ll either bankshot your way into making it happen or that you can just pretend it’s not something you need until you can’t pretend any more.
Good luck.
Dear Dr. NerdLove:
I completely devoured your blog while reentering the dating pool after a divorce/long break. Approaching dating from the perspective of abundance has been huge in keeping my focus on what I want. I have met someone who is amazing for me; I’ve got enough experience to know that this love is real and good and I believe he feels the same. Yay!
We are both older than most of your fans. We both have kids, and while his kids have a second parent who is totally involved, mine are 100% mine (not just custody, I am really all there is). We are still in early days in the sense that we are definitely a couple and have been clear about our feelings, but we haven’t talked about the long-term. It is pretty clear to me that whatever involvement I have with his kids is as a bonus/ be supportive and love them and respect that they have two competent, caring parents already. But on my end, anything beyond exactly where we are now, spending as much time together as we can, but not involving the kids much, means really involving him with my fatherless children. I am not looking to jump the gun, but the reality is being in a relationship with me ultimately means having a role in their lives.
I assume this is fairly obvious to a man dating a completely solo parent – that I am a package deal. But, when do you even talk about that? Yes, we defined the relationship, that’s pretty straightforward. How do you ask, “do you just want to love me or are you open to loving them even though it means you are part of the relentless task of parenting without a break?” He is a wonderful human being, who is responsible and conscientious and cares deeply about the people in his life, and he has made it very clear to me how much he loves me. But it’s not like when we started dating he claimed any interest in playing “bonus parent” on hard mode. We were both fairly new to being back on the market. I do not think he had a mental plan for what his forever was going to look like when we started dating, so it’s hard to imagine taking on the life I live was on the radar.
I don’t want to bring up what feels to me like the elephant(s) in the room super early and seem like I’m asking him to do something huge after only a few months. I don’t need anyone to make my life work, it already does. But also if he’s not open to eventually being a real part of their lives, I feel like I need to know that as soon as I can.
Thanks for any thoughts you may have.
Love Me Love My Kids
Some of my advice is going to be contingent on how old your kids are, LMLMK, but all of it is going to hinge on a very important fact: your kids are part of your life. That means that yes, you’re a package deal; being in a serious relationship with you means that your kids will be involved.
Now, if you and your new beau just want something casual – you’ll go out on dates, enjoy fun sexy times together but have no expectation of commitment or a long-term, serious connection – then that’s one thing. You’ll need to deal with logistics more than the dynamics of the role you or he will be taking with each other’s children.
But if you’re looking at having him be a serious part of your life, then yeah, you’re going to have to talk about what it means. Your kids are a part of you and your life. That part’s non-negotiable. Same as for your partner. So if you and he have any ambitions towards, say, moving in together, then you’re absolutely going to need to talk this through and what it all means.
You don’t say how long you’ve been seeing him, which does affect things. I’m firmly of the opinion that one doesn’t involve or even necessarily introduce a partner to your children until you know that this relationship is going to be serious. Even if they’re into their tweens, it can be cruel to introduce someone, allow them to bond with him and then cut him away if that relationship ends. But talking about the future and how you’re going to handle this if and when you do get to that stage? That part needs to happen now.
Here’s my thinking: you know you want something serious with this man. You know that the fact that you have kids means that a romantic partner is going to have some sort of role in your children’s lives too. You both know this conversation’s going to have to happen eventually. It’s better, in my opinion, to have the conversation now, rather than later. The longer you take to have this conversation – one you both know is inevitable – then the harder it’ll be to have at all.
Now, this doesn’t mean that he’s going to need to take a parenting role now, nor does it mean that he’s going to be more than just a name that your kids may be aware of. But you two should at least talk about this so that you have a roadmap about where this relationship is going eventually. So, this would mean talking about how you two are going to make this work down the line.
And since you both have kids, that’s an important discussion to have. You’re both going to need to talk about what a serious or long-term relationship is going to mean. If there’s a chance that this is going to be a blended, Brady Bunch situation, then you need to start laying the groundwork now. That doesn’t mean you need to start pricing out movers or talking to your respective kids about their new siblings, but it definitely means gathering resources, laying foundations and infrastructure and establishing relationships with people who can help ease the transition when it happens.
Now that having been said, I think that this first conversation should be framed as a “for now” conversation, one that’s on contingency, not a foregone conclusion. I think that you’re both also going to need to have conversations with your children about your relationship with one another. After all, this isn’t just going to affect your life, it’s going to have incredible effects on their lives too… and to my mind, they should get to have a say. Unilaterally imposing a new family on them can be difficult under the best of circumstances. Under the wrong circumstances, it can be traumatic as hell. And while I know it seems a bit much to be giving your kids a voice, if not a veto, I think their understanding and their buy-in is important too. Your children are entirely reliant on you, and I think that incurs a responsibility to consider them and their needs and make them the priority. So if the children – yours or his – aren’t ready or able to handle you having a person in your life occupying a similar role to their mother or father, then I think that needs to be taken into consideration as well.
So take time, acknowledge that this is planning for the future, not things that need to happen immediately. You’re laying the groundwork for the time – a time that may still not come – when you’re both ready to take things to the next level. If you can see it as a map and not a contract, it may be easier.
It’s a complicated situation, for sure. And it may well be that, as much as you and he care for each other, you just may not be in a place where you two can make this work. That, unfortunately, is part of the dating experience. But considering just how many people are involved here and that these conversations are going to have to happen eventually, then it’s best to have them now.
Good luck.
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