Is My Boyfriend’s Ex Trying to Steal Him From Me?

Dear Dr. NerdLove:

I had been exclusive with my boyfriend for more than a half year now. As usual, our first months were very smooth. However, just after some months as well, we started to have some trust issues. He happened to make me insecure consciously. For instance, when we we partied, he came to a girl sooo near that their lips were just an inch apart. He insisted it was nothing but the girl involved told me he was being flirty. Mind you, I acted as a wingman for his friend who was single. I invited that girl to our group so she and my boyfriend’s single friend could get into a conversation. And yeah, it ended differently and unexpectedly. Also there is this other situation when he called me while he was out drinking with his best friend. He bragged and told me that he is about to party with other women. He said that in an inappropriate way, he even admitted he was provoking me too. It was unnecessary and hurtful for me because I have not done anything to make him feel in this sort of ways.

Last weekend, we went out with his female friends. Before we got there, he told me that his ex asked him if she could tag along, as their common friend invited her. He made  it seem as if she was just checking on us and me to be considerate. I was appreciative of that. I told my boyfriend that I was on a sticky spot though, that technically I will be the b*tch if I say no. I told him that and to say it’s okay. Later on, he told me she won’t be there as she will go out with a different group of friends instead.

As we were at the bar having drinks with the other friends, his ex showed up. It was uncomfortable and awkward. I admit it, their history makes me insecure. I communicated that to my boyfriend already and added I just needed to see and have a feel of how platonic their friendship is, anyway, I’m also friends with my ex. We even agreed to eventually meet with her so that becomes possible; eventually, not on this day though.

So yes, she showed up, I was shocked. There were fishy moments during our time all together… At one point, she shared she feels quite uncomfortable that her now-boyfriend is spending the evening with his ex in a different city. This was the time I got a bit catty, I agreed with her and pointed out she was there too with me and my boyfriend, implying I am also uncomfortable. She laughed it away, but I knew she got what I exactly meant. Regardless, we stayed all together for a couple more hours.

What happened after then is quite irrelevant now; I have problems with what I found out the next two days. I found out she was technically inviting my boyfriend to party with her. I found out my boyfriend was the one to invite her to join us initially and not their common friend. I found out that at some point, my boyfriend told her we should meet another time, because he saw how uncomfortable I got after he pretended that she was checking on us whether it was okay or not. He pretended she really said she was going out with others, when she did not say anything like that to him. He told her the truth about the whole situation, but he chose to lie to me about all those.

I am mad at him for lying to me, those lies were unnecessary. I am convinced he should even be more honest with me right now than with her. We are building our foundation of trust and isn’t such action regressive for us? We are supposed to be the team now too, right, not him and her. I exploded because I felt betrayed, yes, he might not have kissed her or whatever but it felt like he chose her back more than mine. That he was protecting her and their friendship by making all those lies.

I am also mad at her. If she was really considerate, after my bf had told her to just meet us another day, she should have not shown up. Also, I can’t fathom how she could complain about her uncomfortableness as her boyfriend was with his ex, while she proactively does the same thing. Was she making it for herself even, that’s why she insisted on coming? I think that she’s being unfair to me. I also now think, she is really disrespectful to me and my relationship. She tried to tell me how happy she was for us, but at the same time, she still sends my boyfriend her pictures with her cleavage out here and then. I mean, what for? In no universe can I accept that as an appropriate behaviour. She surely doesn’t want her boyfriend to receive such pictures from his ex too, right? So why do the same. If she was really happy for us and respected our relationship, she should not act that way, right?

As much as I am convinced that my feelings of dismay and being mad at the two of them are valid, I want someone to call me out if I’m just really overreacting. I have issues in believing my boyfriend now. I told him not to please lie again. I told him that he should be honest with me with whatever matter, that he just tell me things as how they are and not make a lie around the truth. I also can’t accept their so called friendship now anymore. Of course, I tried telling my boyfriend how inappropriately they have acted in my opinion. I told him how she was fake and disrespectful towards us. I told him too that I can’t accept if he just let her continue. I asked my boyfriend how he would feel if he finds out I write to my ex the way that his ex does, I asked him how he would feel if he learns I send such pictures to my ex the way his ex does. Only then did it click for him that it isn’t as harmless as he initially thought it to be. Even this one, I kinda doubt though. Can it not be that he was just trying to make it seem there’s no malice, as he enjoys the fact that her ex is constantly charming him up until now? I really really hope it had clicked for him as I have no plans acting to my ex in these manner. It’s not difficult for me to assess what is appropriate behaviour and I don’t want to cause these emotions I feel right now to my partner.

Dr. Nerd Love, please call me out if you think I’m crazy. Please tell me I’m not overreacting.

Is his lying about such facts justifiable? Do you think it was also unfair for me that I get lies and the ex gets the truth? Do you also think she’s disrespectful to me and my relationship? Do you think she is acting inappropriately and is foul towards me and her boyfriend? Is it normal that I really see some malice in their friendship now? Is it reasonable I am not happy of accepting of their ‘friendship’ too. I hope you give you your thought about this. And thank you in advance for hearing me out.

Sincerely,
Not Taking It

Alright  NTI, having read through this a couple times… honestly, I don’t think the problem is your boyfriend’s ex. I think the problem is your boyfriend.

As a rule of thumb, I’m a big believer that being in contact with your ex and having a good relationship with them is a sign of emotional maturity and intelligence. Not every break up means that the other person needs to be excised from your life. If you and they are able to (re)build a friendship or maintain one after a break up, then that’s a mark in their favor. Many times, the real issue about one’s partner still being close with their ex is about jealousy and insecurity, not about having lingering feelings.

But then, sometimes there’re reasons to be jealous and to feel insecure in the moment.

Your boyfriend’s ex certainly seems like a piece of work. Some of the behavior you describe comes off as not great – and more on that in a second. But honestly, that’s not really an issue because someone can make all the moves and invitations they want and not really be a threat to the relationship. It’s obnoxious and disrespectful, but the fact that she a) exists and b) seems to be acting inappropriately with someone else’s monogamous partner, but you can’t exactly steal a person. They have to want to go.

No, the problem here seems to be your boyfriend. Even under my most charitable reading of your letter, the dude sounds like an asshole. The flirting with the woman you were trying to set his bro up with, his taunting you about being with other women – something you’re clearly sensitive about… these are all dick moves. Even if it’s under the rubric of teasing and wanting to get a rise out of you… it’s shitty behavior. There’s teasing someone and then there’s poking them in the spots where they’re most vulnerable and most tender. The former… well, that tends to depend on the personalities of everyone involved. The latter, however, is a shitty thing to do. Deliberately poking someone in their weak spot for LULZ is, quite frankly, pointlessly cruel.

So I’m not entirely shocked that he doesn’t seem to be taking you seriously when you talk about how much this bothers you or just being flexible with the truth about his inviting her to join you. Nor am I terribly shocked that he’s not exactly drawing some lines in the sand and saying “hey, knock this off, ok?” The fact that it doesn’t seem to sink in that what he’s doing hurt you until he could imagine it happening to him suggests that – again, if I’m being charitable – he’s painfully immature at best and remarkably self-centered at worst. So, if I’m being perfectly honest: I’m not entirely sure why you’re with him.

This clearly is a sore spot for you and your boyfriend’s behavior was the emotional equivalent of splashing gasoline everywhere and then trying to do cool tricks with a zippo. He may not have intended harm, but he certainly set things up so that bad shit could happen if only by accident.

Now having said that: I wonder how much of your (understandable) anger and frustration with your boyfriend’s antics are coloring your interpretation of his ex’s behavior. It’s a little like making a bad first impression; that becomes the filter that you’re going to see everything through. If you’ve been primed to see her actions as her intruding on your time with your boyfriend and your friends – as he did by lying about inviting her – then it doesn’t seem a stretch that everything she does is going to come off as line-stepping. So when she seems to have invited herself to your shindig after saying “I’ll do something else”, then it really isn’t that unreasonable to see the rest of what she does or says in the worst possible light.

If we divorce her actions from emotion as best we can, then I can see ways that what she says or does could be aboveboard; adding the feelings of mistrust and intrusion would easily make it seem more malicious. On the other hand, I’ve also seen people across the gender and sexuality spectrum who are habitual line-steppers. These are folks who see “I have a boyfriend/girlfriend” as a challenge and think that monogamy and fidelity are things that happen to other people. So it’s not unreasonable that she really was being disrespectful enough to flirt with your boyfriend in front of you.

But again: it doesn’t seem like he was trying to stop her. Nor, for that matter, does his playing fast and loose with the truth – or outright lying – make it any better. So I can see it being both ways: you were primed to be pissed at her by his actions and she wasn’t being out of line, and she and your boyfriend seem to think it’s perfectly cool to make a scene in front of you.

Which is it? I’m not sure. Memory’s a funky thing, and incredibly malleable to interpretation after the fact. A lot of times, what happened and what we remember are two different things and get influenced by how we feel. It may well be worth looking at this with a new set of eyes and getting the opinion of some of your friends who where there. How did they see the ex’s behavior? Did they see it as being flirty and inappropriate, or a normal interaction made awkward by the context? Getting their opinions may help you get a better feel for whether you’re making too much of this or not.

Now, I want to make it clear: even if what she was doing wasn’t innocent, the biggest cause of the drama and insecurity you’re feeling is your boyfriend. He’s already been “playful” with any issues you have around trust or infidelity, and clearly it’s made things worse. If he’s cool with poking your sore spots for shits and giggles, that makes it pretty damn hard to trust him when he says he saw how uncomfortable things got and didn’t want to cause problems. So if it really was a case of you overreacting to otherwise in-bounds behavior? That’s more on him for setting the stage for this to happen.

Hopefully, that come to Jesus talk with him got through and he’ll be more considerate in the future. If not…. well, honestly, I’d say you may want to ask whether you still want to be with him or not.

Good luck.

Hi Doc,
Been a fan for a while, starting to adjust to things going okay for the first time in a while.

Finally got a starting job in my field after years of trying, and wouldn’t you know it, the woman sitting next to me is a classmate from college I thought had a crush on me at the time.

Now I wasn’t super interested before, but I’ve gotten to know her a bit better and I’m curious (when I don’t feel a strong urge to push fast and hard). She has shown some indications she still finds me interesting (she shares lots of personal details with me, and not really with others, she’s checked out some of my stuff without realizing she didn’t ask to look at it, etc.). We can chat for 20-30 minutes at a time just about random stuff without really watching the time.

I’m trying my best to not be anxious and and just push for something before she realizes it’s me she’s chatting with. I also have bad brain weasels that say I’m being a creep and being too forward. So it’s sort of damned if I do, damned of I don’t, brain-wise.

I know your normal advice is just to approach her like I would a friend and show how I’m interesting. I know I’m interesting and have friends who like spending time with me. My problem is I don’t know how to be fun and playful while anxious, let alone being any about of flirty. I just feel constantly like I’m about to cross the line and get called in for a talk about workplace behavior. I’m pretty sure she would say something to me first, but it doesn’t help.

I know I need to balance interest with friendliness, but I don’t know how. I see myself being a creep, or dropping my interest on her and it being a total surprise.
Hope this mess makes sense.

Butterflies All Tied Up

I think you’re overthinking things, BATU.

Let’s deal with the last part first: someone being surprised that you’re interested in them isn’t creepy or manipulative. We talk a lot about Nice Guy behavior and why that’s bad, but it’s bad because the Nice Guy isn’t being nice because that’s just who he is. He’s being “nice”, because he thinks that’s how he can weasel his way into her heart and/or her pants. He’s being friends with her under false pretenses, using “friendship” as his way of getting and staying close to her. That’s why it hurts her when she finds out – not because finding out someone’s attracted to you is bad, but because the person she thought was her friend was only acting like her friend to get what he wanted from her.

Similarly, suddenly learning that someone is into you isn’t inherently creepy. It may be a surprise and unexpected and take a few minutes to process, but that’s hardly the same as creeping someone out. It gets creepy when they realize that all the friendly stuff he was doing was to manipulate her or to further the agenda of “collect friend tokens, trade in for sex”.

Since that doesn’t seem to be what you’re doing, and your friend seems to be a reasonably intelligent and perceptive woman, I think we can safely assume that even if you were to drop a “I’d like to date you” bomb, she’s not going to recoil like you offered her a piping hot cup of e. coli.

By that same token, hanging out and talking, being a little flirty, even asking someone out on a date isn’t out of line. As with most things in life, it’s all about how you respond that makes a difference. If your friend acts uncomfortable or asks you to stop when you flirt with them and you back off? Not creepy; you’re respecting her wishes. If you ask her out, she turns you down and you take it in stride? Again: this isn’t creepy. Now, if you keep flirting with her, even when she clearly doesn’t like it or you keep asking her out or get pissy at her for turning you down… yeah, that would be creepy and likely get you hauled into HR. But acting like a grown-ass adult who can take “no” without melting down? That’s not creepy at all.

(Now that being said: even if the flirting is reciprocated and welcomed, it can cross the line into inappropriate work behavior… so my advice here would be to keep it to things you wouldn’t be afraid to say in front of your boss.)

I suspect that your anxiousness is coming from the fact that, well… you like her. You like her, you’re interested in her and you’re worried that you’re going to fuck it up. Which, y’know, is not an unreasonable worry. But while it may seem scary, I can promise you that the worst that’s likely to happen is that she says no, it’s awkward for a day or two and then you both power through it and get back to normal. Even if she does say no, it’s not going to destroy you. It won’t be fun – being turned down is very rarely fun – but it won’t be as bad as you’re making it out to be.

Here’s the thing though: anxiety and fear don’t get better when we try to avoid them. In fact, trying to push them away or avoid the things that trigger them only serve to intensify the fear and make it all-encompassing. It’s generally better to confront it head on and realize that it’s not as bad as your brain weasels were making it out to be. The more you get used to tackling those anxieties or worries, the more you learn about yourself. This is handy, because then you learn where your weak points are, where your triggers are, and you start being better able to recognize what’s making you anxious.

The more you understand the specific triggers and behaviors, the more you can look around and say “ok, see, this is clearly not the problem; look, she’s done X, Y and Z! It’s $TRIGGER that’s making me feel anxious.” And using that emotional language – you feel anxious, not you are anxious – reminds you that this is just a feeling, not truth. While you can’t reason anxieties away, you can, at least, talk yourself down from the ledge with reason and calm yourself down enough so that the moment will pass.

And if it helps: yeah, everything you describe certainly seems like she enjoys your company and likes spending time with you. So I don’t think you need to tie yourself in knots over this. I think your anxiety is much more about your fears, rather than your intuition picking up on something your conscious brain is missing.

My suggestion? Assume the best and invite her out on a date. Tell her “there’s this $COOL_THING happening this weekend that I’m going to, and I think you’d really enjoy it. If you’re down, I’d love to take you.” Or even “hey, I’m really enjoying hanging out with you at work, but you know? I like you, and I’d like to take you out on a date.”

How she responds will tell you everything that you need to know. If she says yes, then congratulations, you got your answer. If she can’t make it that weekend, but proposes an alternative time or activity? Yahtzee! If she can’t but doesn’t propose another time or just says “thank you but no”? Well… it stings, sure, but now you have your answer. And while it may not be the answer you were hoping for, at least now the worst will have happened, and it wasn’t so bad after all. And hey, while you may not have gotten a date, at least the anxiety should ease up.

And as a bonus: being brave with her, now, will make it that much easier for you to be brave in the future, with someone who is into you and everything you have to offer.

But I bet she’s going to say yes. The only way to know what it’ll be is to ask.

Good luck.