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Hey Doctor NerdLove,
I’m trying to figure out where the line is between accommodating my partner and her dictating my appearance. For context, we’re both nerdy women and we’ve been together for about 6 months.
She tells me often that she thinks I’m physically attractive, but also makes pretty rude comments about what I wear. For the record, I usually go for androgynous smart casual (checked button-ups and black jeans/chinos with trainers).
I’m wary of her being emotionally abusive, as she has been in the past (which I realised after reading another couple of your posts!) She can also be quite controlling and I don’t want it to become a ‘foot in the door’ method to her becoming increasingly dictator-y. The trust is fragile.
At the same time, I read your article about Gomez &, Morticia Addams and it made a lot of sense. I’ve never really thought about putting effort into being attractive for someone. I prioritise clothes being comfortable, useful, clean, etc – also partly due a long-term conscious effort to disentangle from the bs patriarchal narrative of ‘your worth as a women is defined by how attractive you are’.
Recently, her comments have been more around how I wear things, e.g. that I should wear tight clothes, more feminine things, etc. – she’s made jokes about dressing me up like a doll.
I’d like for it to be a healthy relationship and I’m willing to put in the work if this will help, I’m just not sure if this is work I should be doing or a red flag.
What do you think, Doc?
Red or Green Flag?
I don’t know if I’d call this a red flag per se, ROGF, but I’d definitely call it a pink flag – something concerning that you need to pay attention to and to watch for signs that it’s becoming redder. Especially with that stinger of “she’s been emotionally abusive before”.
Put a pin in that, we’ll be coming back to this in a minute.
So the thing about making an effort for your partner is that you’re making an effort to be attractive for them that’s authentic to who you are. Part of why Gomez and Morticia work isn’t that she transformed him into a different person; she loves who he is and he makes an effort to be the best version of himself. It’s not that she browbeat him from being a hoodie-and-ragged-jeans guy to a fashion plate, it’s that he’s always had his style and joie-de-vivre and she responds to that.
Style and sexiness is as much about attitude and the unique spin you put on your look as it is the specific clothes you wear. There’re lots of ways that a more gender-neutral or agender presentation can be stylish and sexy that can be authentic to who you are. If someone can’t see that or vibe with that, then they may not be someone for you.
It’d be one thing if, say, you found dressing in a more femme-presenting or overtly sexy style worked for you and the way you see yourself. It’s another thing entirely to do it exclusively for them… especially if it’s something you don’t actually like. Doubly so when it requires a rather significant investment of your time and money.
Now that isn’t to say that you can’t change up your look or try different styles or archetypes and see what makes a good fit. But that has to be your choice, not something you were pushed into. You may well find some more femme-presenting styles that vibe with you and that’s great. But if you don’t, that’s great too, because you’re you and making that effort to be attractive is all about being the most polished version of your authentic self.
Similarly, it’s one thing to have opinions about styles or fashion that you think would look hot as hell on your partner. It’s another entirely to neg, nag and push at it until you give in. A person can think, for example, that their partner might look amazing in a rockabilly style. But once they start demanding it, it quickly becomes a big red flag, a sign that they’re seeing you less as a person and more of a prop.
This sort of behavior is the sort of thing that can go from innocuous to toxic in a rush, and unfortunately it’s something that happens all too often.
One of the narratives I hate in dating – one that transcends gender and sexuality – is when someone dates a person and then starts trying to change everything about them. This inevitably leads to break ups as one partner sands off all the quirks and foibles that attracted them to the person in the first place.
Your girlfriend was drawn to you and started dating you knowing that you prefer to dress in a more androgynous or gender-neutral way. That’s part of who you are, and presumably your girlfriend was drawn to you as a person, not as a blank slate that she could project her own desires or fantasies onto. If she needs someone who’s more femme-presenting or who wears tighter or more revealing clothes on the regular, then she’d do better to find someone who’s already like that instead of trying to mold you into her vision of The Perfect Partner.
While it can be fun to do a fashion makeover, put yourself into someone else’s hands and play around with looks and styles, there’s “fun” and then there’s changing the things that make you uniquely you. An outfit or two that you wear for her that’s a little outside of your normal style can be fun, especially for special occasions. Changing everything about you and expecting it to be your new normal is entirely different and distinctly worrying.
And speaking of, let’s come back to the “been controlling and emotionally abusive in the past”. That is something I’d call a red flag and something to be very mindful of. If she’s aware enough of those tendencies to mention them to you, then my question would be whether has she actually done anything substantive about it?
I’d want to know what she’s been doing about them. Has she been putting actual, meaningful effort into stopping that behavior and dealing with that side of herself? Has she actually gone to therapy, done some sort of shadow-work or otherwise addressed these tendencies? If you call her out when she makes these comments, how does she respond? Does she realize it and try to stop? Or does she say the “right” things, only to do it again later on?
The rudeness and jokey-jokes are concerning to me; it doesn’t take much for playful rudeness and joking around to quit being playful and jokey. You’re (rightly) on the look-out for potential foot-in-the-door moments, and those comments and jokes are what you should be looking for.
Does she also throw out comments of the “yeah, I’m an asshole but that’s ok because I know I am?” or the “if you can’t handle me at my worst…” variety? Those are the sorts of comments that would make me start moving towards the door; they’re the things that people often say when they don’t see those aspects of themselves as something they need to change. It sounds like self-deprecating awareness, but all too often it’s more of a test-balloon to see what you’re willing to put up with.
If she gets upset that you’re laying down a boundary about the way she behaves, that’s when the pink flag gets upgraded to bright red. Like, “Running with the bulls in Pamplona” levels of red.
Right now, you should be drawing some harder lines in the sand about this. How she responds is going to give you important information about the overall health of this relationship. Call her out over her rude comments – literally say “hey, that’s actually really rude and I don’t appreciate it, please stop.” How she reacts is going to tell you a lot about how healthy this relationship is or will be. If she apologizes and actually changes her behavior – for longer than just the length of time she thinks it’ll take for you drop it – then that’s great. But if she responds in a way that’s dismissive of your desires, such as the classic “can’t you take a joke” or “why are you so serious, lighten up!”, that’s going to tell you a lot… and what it says isn’t good. I wouldn’t say that’s a “dump her now” infraction, but it’s definitely pushing against your boundary and you need to reinforce it.
If she says “it’s just a joke”, then tell her, flat out, that you don’t find it funny and you want her to stop. If she tells you to lighten up, tell her that you don’t find this to be a laughing matter and you want her to stop making these comments; you find them hurtful and don’t appreciate them. If she tries to say she’s doing this because she thinks you’d be hotter/ for your own good/whatever, then tell her, firmly, that you like who you are and you like your style and this is who you were when you two started dating. You’re not a project, you’re not a fixer-upper or a fashion doll, you’re a person and she can either have a relationship with the person that you are, or she can find someone else.
If she continues to push against your clearly stated boundaries – either immediately or later on when she thinks the moment has passed – then she’s shown you who she really is… and that person needs to be kicked to the curb like the week’s compost.
Hopefully she’s the sort of person who can see those parts of herself, recognize that they need to change and has been putting in the work to do so. If she hasn’t (or won’t), then as much as you care for her, you need to love yourself more. You aren’t going to love someone enough to make them stop abusive behavior; they can only do that for themselves. You have a responsibility to your own safety first and if she’s a controlling or abusive asshole, your responsibility is to get the fuck out at speed.
Good luck.
Hey Doc.
Long time reader over here. I’ve been about this blog for four years now and thankfully, it has really helped expand my nuance around dating. I’m a 31 year old visible minority male who has had a string of maybe 2 semi-serious relationships since attending college at 25. I have recently only gone all the way with one girl at the age of 31, and I feel unique compared to most men in that I haven’t felt the pressure to get laid by a certain age. Partially, this is because I’m pretty serious about my career over the last ten years, partially I come from a semi queer family situation who really doesn’t meet the typical nuclear, 2 kids two cars classic all American (or Canadian) family structure. With that (and being a minority) the classic toxic manly man’s definition of manhood is something I have prided myself on distancing myself from. Practically however, there is one big reason why I haven’t been dating. Maybe you and my fellow nerd readers have already picked up on a common thread here already, but I’ll just bluntly say it: I haven’t pursued dating primarily for a lack of money. I am (relative to the typical north American) dirt poor and with dating, and the risk of pregnancy and what that entails for lower socioeconomic peoples, and the fact I have been living at home for more or less thirty years of my life, with dating…. AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FOR THAT. Period. So finally, after reaching a point in my career where I have the money to start going out, I DO….HAVE TIME FOR THAT…So I recently met someone pretty cool who connects with my lifestyle and goals. The only problem is her roommates who share the space just as one would have a problem bringing girls over to their parents’ house. After all, who wants to have a fancy old bang about while dad watches the game and mom is in the kitchen? As well, on the other hand, who wants to bring a nice girl home to deal with the… various routines older folks go through in close proximity to ones “love nest”?
So my house is out but the real fly in the ointment is that my sexy friend’s roommates do not want me as a prospective partner to spend the night in their house. But not just in their house-but in my sexy friends room.
We both think it’s immature- she pays for her part of the space, her space is hers to use -except- I partially do not think her room mates are immature. For one, I do understand some of the concerns a house full of women may have with a random stranger man interloping into their space-especially if it is a one night stand. It’s understandable how you may not exactly want a stranger to be using a shared space such as a bathroom, especially when everyone has a different schedule and you have to accommodate a new guest. Of course, I have to ask the implication about what this means for NON sexy friends staying over-but in short, a one night stand may throw a wrench in the established routine of four working full time women outside of hearing creaking bed springs at 2 am. That makes sense. And me and my sexy friend were (unfortunately) ready to meet their considerations.
However, once said hook up happened and I was ready to leave… inclement weather hit, preventing my ride from picking me up-stranding me for the night. No problem for me and my friend-no one wants a perspective ride to get in a car accident or face dangerous road conditions because of a bootie call-and again, we were ready to meet her roommates somewhat understandable concern.
This is the problem though. When my sexy friend informed her roommates I would be staying, they simply came back with “Well can’t we drop him off at the bus station?” which is reasonable- if the busses actually ran. To do so, I would be waiting in a city I don’t know, between the hours of 9pm and 6 am next day for the bus – and I’m a visible minority in a somewhat increasingly racist time. On one hand from my perspective, this immaturity to a shared space bootie call has jumped to a callous disregard of life and of the time we live in-like lets imagine the shoe on the other foot gender-wise: If I were a woman, would we even comprehend suggesting that I stay overnight alone at a bus station?
At the same time, I am also pragmatic to give the benefit of the doubt-that maybe my sexy friend’s roommates simply don’t know enough about the bus schedule or other extenuating factors. Four roommates all working and busy don’t exactly have much connection outside of sharing the space they pay for.
So to wrap it up, as a young 31 year old who still lives at home, who isn’t in a position to purchase my own living space yet, and has to deal with a prospective partners roommates who’s life style totally clashes with myself and my sexy friend, what should I do? Should I start saving my money for motel rooms? Should me and my friend pack a tent in their car? Maybe save up some gas money and hit the countryside.
Three Bedrooms One Bath
Oof.
Two things can be true, TBOB; your lady friend’s roommates can have legitimate concerns about having strangers sleeping over and they can be rude, inconsiderate or just plain “what the actual hell is wrong with you?” levels of hostile for strange reasons.
It’s entirely reasonable, for example to be uncomfortable to have a strange person, especially a strange man, staying in your house – especially if he’s a hook-up rather than an established partner. While the person who invited him presumably has decent Spidey-sense and has vetted him, that’s no guarantee, and God knows people have had to deal with roommates bringing folks home who turned out to be creepers or worse since time immemorial.
At the same time however, sometimes shit happens and throwing someone out in nightmare weather with no real means of getting home safely is almost needlessly cruel. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for your friend to say “hey, we’re not throwing him out on a night like this,” and – at the very least – waiting until either the busses are running or it’s safe for you to catch a cab or a rideshare home. That, to my mind, is basic hospitality.
But, leaving those specific circumstances aside, there does come a point where accommodations, compromises and understanding are going to be required from folks who live together. There are reasonable compromises and concessions that can be made for things like having overnight guests that aren’t “you, as a sexually active adult, are not allowed to have your partners over, even in your room”. That’s the point where I think your lady friend’s roommates are acting unreasonably. I have to wonder if similar rules apply for any of their partners, regardless of gender, or if this is just something they decided only applies to other people.
(I also wonder if there’s a racial element to this; would they have the same issue if you weren’t a racial minority?)
But that’s something for your friend to sort out for herself; she’s a grown-ass, rent-paying adult and she’s the one who lives there. That’s her responsibility to deal with. Your responsibility is to find options that work for you, considering your living situation and your finances.
Squaring this particular circle is going to be a combination of a willingness to look at this as a challenge requiring some creative solutions, a can-do attitude, and an eye towards a more amenable living situation, both short and long-term.
The long-term solution, obviously, would be to save up towards getting your own place – either on your own or with roommates of your own.
Short term, however, is where you’re going to need some creativity. If your parents have a space that would work as an additional-dwelling unit (like a garage or basement apartment) or a space that you could access with your own door, that would help give you more breathing room as you get your finances together.
Without that, however, you’re going to have to look at hooking up as a series of challenges that make this more exciting. Think of it as a way of building both anticipation and excitement; you and your friends or partners have to find ways to overcome the obstacles that’re thwarting your desire, which makes the successful boning down all the sweeter. In some ways, it’s like being a teenager again, trying to find alone time with your snugglebunny. The challenge of finding the time and space, the thrill of the risk of getting caught all add spice and intensity to the relationship.
But, as entertaining as that can be, there are diminishing returns to this approach, especially once you’re an adult. It’s one thing if this is an issue with an established partner. It’s less desirable if you’re dealing with random hook-ups or one-night stands. A committed partner may see trying to solve the “where’re we gonna do it” as a fun game you are playing together. To someone you just met off Tinder or at the bar, this becomes one more reason why they’re gonna want to just go home alone, instead.
And honestly, boning down on the regular in comfort and safety takes money. Yes, you could sling a tent out in a convenient field or campground, that’s not going to be a long or even mid-term solution. That can be an entertaining diversion on occasion, but I think even the most understanding partner is going to want the benefit of a comfortable mattress, four walls and climate control before long.
The same goes for finding sneaky outdoor canoodling spots or local Lover’s Lanes for some back-seat action; it’s fun on occasion but not as your primary or only option, and it has privacy, legal and safety risks involved.
It’s a shame that more places haven’t followed Japan’s initiative, where a lack of privacy lead to the rise of love hotels for couples who need a place to go to bang. But as it is, the most viable option is going to involve overnights at hotels or a short term rental service like Airbnb. These get pricy very quickly, so it’s understandable that this can put a damper on your love-life.
So, short term, you may have to allow for finding opportunities when your parents or inconvenient roommates aren’t around, while hotels and rentals are for special occasions or when there are no other options.
Medium term, if things with your new sexy friend look as though they’re going to last, hopefully she’ll be able to sort things out with her roommates.
The course of love – or just getting laid – never did run smoothly, but that’s not always a bad thing. With luck and a flexible outlook, if this does turn into a more established relationship, you and your lady will look at this as an amusing challenge that you had to overcome together and ultimately brought you closer as a couple. If not, or future partners have similar roadblocks, you’re going to have to factor the price of the occasional night at a hotel as part of the cost of dating until your living situation is sorted.
Good luck
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